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100 – Podcast History & Reflection w/Next Level Non-Verbals in a World of Emojis-Part 2

In our 100th episode of the Listen First Podcast, Leanne Van Beek joins me to reflect on the podcast’s growth since 2018. We discuss how the podcast began supporting alumni, the human connections behind the data, and the power of real-life testimonials.

Leanne also shares some surprising thoughts on the Chapman Foundation’s evolution, and we both express gratitude to founders Bob and Cynthia Chapman.

After our conversation, continue to Part 2 of the Skill Snippet—Next-level Nonverbals in a World with Emojis. As we continue to delve into the world of nonverbal communication, explore with us when to amplify or restrain your nonverbals, how to navigate face-to-face interactions with those that might have a flat effect, and glean practical tips on when and how often we should style flex.

We would love to hear from you, our audience. Your support of the Chapman Foundation and the podcast makes us jubilant and gives us the fuel to keep changing the world.

Please download the CFCC Leads app. Under the menu, you’ll find a link called Share Your Story. Please fill out the form and let us know how the podcast, classes, or interactions with our team have impacted your life.

AI-generated dictation of the podcast audio

Please note that this transcription was completed using AI software.  Occasionally, unanticipated grammatical, syntax, homophones, and other interpretive errors are inadvertently transcribed by the software. Please excuse any errors that have escaped final proofreading.

Speaker 1 0:11
On the listen first podcast, you’ll join us as we connect with an array of fascinating guests from varying backgrounds and perspectives to explore how we can build and become leaders that transform their families, workplaces and communities. Tune in for insight on mastering skills like active listening to verbal and nonverbal communication, understanding behavioral tendencies and appreciating individuality.

Adam Salgat 0:47
Hello, and welcome to the 100th episode of The listen first podcast. I’m your host, Adam Salgat.

Adam Salgat 1:07
In our 100th episode of The listen first podcast, Leanne Van Beek joins me and we reflect on the podcast growth since 2018. We discuss how the podcast began as the support for alumni, the human connections behind the data and the power of real life testimonials. Leanne also share some surprising thoughts on the Chapman Foundation’s evolution. And we both express gratitude to founders Bob and Cynthia Chapman. After our conversation, continue on to part two of the skills snippet next level nonverbals in a world with emojis, as we continue to delve into the world of nonverbal communication, explore with us when it is right to amplify or restrain your nonverbals how to navigate face to face interactions with those that might have a flat effect and glean practical tips on when and how often we should style flex. Lastly, we would love to hear from you, our audience, because your support of the Chapman Foundation, and this podcast makes us jubilant and provides us with the fuel to keep changing the world, please download the CFCC leads app and under the menu you’ll find a link called Share your story, please fill out the form and let us know how the podcast classes or interactions with our team have had an impact on your life.

Adam Salgat 2:42
I Leanne Welcome back. This is an interesting piece of the podcast where I wanted to take time for us to reflect basically, and you know, you’ve been a facilitator now for many years, you were my facilitator in 2015 When I first took the class, so it’s been quite a while. But this is our 100th podcast episode. So I’m gonna start off first of all by just asking you, what’s your recollection of you know, how the podcast got started?

Leanne Van Beek 3:11
Oh, boy. Okay, this is gonna be like a memory test. Right? Like you have one version? And I might have another Yeah, we’re gonna see what lines up. Okay. I’m already nervous. No, I’m to the best of my recollection, you had gone through the class, I remember us talking about just like the impact that it had been having. And, you know, kind of the need that we were seeing from alumni who kind of wanted to keep going with the skills. And you were obviously really heavily involved in the space of video and podcasting. And I feel like we talked about the idea of, wouldn’t a podcast be the perfect vehicle to begin delivering additional help to alumni and try to have skill reminders and inspirational moments and conversations with people who might model the skills?

Adam Salgat 3:57
Yeah, you’re looking at me for approval. And I love it. I love it because you’re not wrong. But there’s a detail in there from the technical side, because of what I do that when you when you and the some of the team at Chapman Foundation approached me, you had brought up the idea of trying to do a video series. And I remember sitting down and talking to you all and go and what you want to do from a video perspective, I’m sorry, is probably not something that you’re at a space where you can do it quite yet. And so we talked about the idea of podcast, okay, okay. Yeah. All right. Small thing, but and I only really remember that because I was you know, I was a video producer stole them for the organization. But I remember going at it at that time and thinking what you got in mind here is huge. And I just don’t think a you might not have the budget for and B you may not have the time for so I remember thinking, Well what about a podcast, it’s a little bit more stripped down, but we can still share hear a lot of what we got across. So in 2018, we started the podcast. Yeah. So very, very similar stories. But I remember a little bit more of those technical side. So

Leanne Van Beek 5:13
I probably tend to just block out the times where people tell me no, that’s not gonna work.

Adam Salgat 5:18
Which is fine. Yeah. I think that’s a good attitude to have it move on to what can we do, right? In reflection, I want to bring that the podcast started in 2018. And we have almost reached 41,000, total listens. So in all of those, you know, in all of those years, you’ve been a hand in, you’ve had a hand in many of those podcasts. Has anyone ever approached you and said, Hey, I heard you on the podcast or any, you know, because I know you do roundtables now. So yeah, the past alumni.

Leanne Van Beek 5:49
It’s happened a few times, I wouldn’t say often. But there have been a couple of times where I’ve been caught off guard where in class, somebody will say something about, you know, they had seen or they had a friend or a spouse recommend a podcast after going to class. And then they realized, Oh, that was you. And a couple of times alumni have said, Oh, yeah, I was just listening to your podcast on XYZ. And sometimes it has been since 2018. And I’m going cash. I don’t remember what I said.

Adam Salgat 6:16
It’s happened to me plenty of times. Yeah. Yeah. Similar stories and the idea of like, sometimes, but I think what is always caught me a little bit off guard, is we see the numbers, right, we see, you know, almost 41,000 listens over the years. But I still sometimes go, I forget that those numbers as an actual human sometimes on the other side, right? That level of connection gets lost a little bit in producing these. And that’s something I’ve been reflecting on didn’t last year. So after having some people say, especially new employees who have started with us in the last year, because our podcast is a pretty strong connection point for someone to learn a little bit about us learn about our curriculum, in some respect. Also, listen to the impact stories that we’ve had over the years. So past staff, or current staff, I should say that have been hired. They email they talk about how they’ve on listened to the podcast, and I’m like, oh, yeah, there’s a human listening to the other side of that podcast.

Leanne Van Beek 7:13
Yeah, I mean, you know this about me, but I love data, right? I love being able to see tangible impact or growth or numbers. And, but I do also think you’re right, like, if you don’t realize that data is really just a story, right? It’s just numbers telling you us human story, then you can maybe sometimes miss a pretty rich element of like, what that story is,

Adam Salgat 7:37
I think it’s such a great reminder of what we do as an organization and building that connection with people the stories that we get to, we get to help build and have a hand in and when thinking about us reaching 100 episodes. What does that mean to you? Or, you know, did you ever really think about that when we started or, you know, talk a little bit about that?

Leanne Van Beek 7:59
Man was the podcast specifically?

Adam Salgat 8:01

Leanne Van Beek 8:03
I guess I don’t know if I, honestly, I don’t know if I thought a lot about where the podcasts would go. Other than I was just thrilled that you were the one doing it. Yeah, because I knew it was going to be I think I thought we thought right, it would be a good way to reach people. Right. So I think it’s just It’s awesome here now to look back and realize, wow, right, like this was a really accessible way for people all over the United States to access the content, right, they didn’t have to be able to physically get themselves into a room after class. You know, although those opportunities when we can do them are great. It just it feels like it’s really rounded out the kind of support we can provide to people and given them a really easy, helpful, quality way to keep growing and thinking about the skills because sometimes just a five minute skill snippet is all you need to kind of go Oh, yeah, that’s right. Like, I do know that I just need to sort of reset and keep practicing.

Adam Salgat 9:01
Right. You mentioned about numbers telling your story. I think that story reflected and what lessons or what podcast episodes have the most lessons are some of our early ones that are very focused around skills, right. So people still often go back to those to really look at confrontation, the five reflective listening skills, acceptance versus agreement, which was, you know, number 50. So it’s halfway to where we are now. And, you know, I think that just again, you know, shows that what we had in mind, is definitely, you know, what people are asking for and what they what they want to hear. I love the evolution of the podcast, when I think about the 100 that we’ve been able to continue to find new ways to bring those skills out and tell new stories and examples. But we’ve also been able to show real life examples, testimonials from people all over the country who have taken our course. And that’s one of my favorite things. And that kind of leads me to my next piece here. about, do you have a favorite topic or a favorite episode or anything jumps out to you?

Leanne Van Beek 10:05
Well, I would say like you, I think that the kind of the testimonial ones are really powerful. Especially for me, I think the ones that touch on organizational change and impact and like how a whole culture is shifting, because you recognize like, you have one voice on the podcast, but it could be impacting dozens or hundreds of people in the organization. And by extension, the ripple effect, right, hundreds of 1000s of people. So I would say generically, I think the testimonials are really inspiring from that perspective. I mean, my Cop Out is honestly the first one, it just makes me laugh every time it’s the episode we did on empathy, and you titled it, how to have empathy for people who suck, because I just think it’s funny is clever. And it’s so true, right? Like, it’s just real, we have those people that we really struggled to empathize with. And I just, I think that that’s a really probably a really relevant topic. Yeah,

Adam Salgat 10:55
it’s in our top 10 of all time listens, for sure. And yeah, I think it does the title grabs people. I mean, you don’t normally want to say that about someone. But the idea there is not just that, we’re not trying to say they suck as a person, but they’re, they’re kind of sucking some energy from us. Because, you know, we have to put more effort into the empathy that we that we showed them, right? Yep.

Leanne Van Beek 11:17
Absolutely. Yep. Yeah. And, and again, in line with kind of our skills and perspective as we learn this, my viewpoint initially is that it’s hard to have empathy for someone who in my mind is difficult. But sometimes going through the actual steps of empathy. I may realize it’s not as difficult for me to put myself in their shoes is what I thought. Right?

Adam Salgat 11:37
Yeah, good evolution. Absolutely. One of my favorite things I want to mention this is that, selfishly, it’s, it’s the podcast where I get to just get to know someone, and then I leave that conversation, not necessarily always thinking about our skills, but I just did leave that conversation thinking about made a new friend, that I’ve made a new person, if I ever feel like, you know, I get to chat with them ever again, I’ve got now a connection, we’ve shared stories, we’ve we’ve bonded and so selfishly, I really love the podcasts of the testimonials, cuz I get to learn about them. And, and then to me, the byproduct is I get to do that for a career, and then I get to share it with all y’all you know, I get to share it with everybody. And I just love that. Yeah. Then you help bring our community lessons and the Chapman foundation into the Michigan region. You know, when in a broader scope, when you think about that, did you ever envision the reach the Chapman foundation now has?

Leanne Van Beek 12:41
So this almost feels like the wrong answer, like probably not what I would be expecting me to say. But honestly, I think my answer is yes. Yeah. When I think back to where we were, when we were starting the podcast, when we were kind of starting to realize how much the content was impacting people. And kind of how we saw things starting to shift. I remember having this feeling and I think we all had this feeling of, it’s like we’re holding the answer key. Like, we just got the cheat code. Yeah, to so many different problems that we felt like we were seeing with workplace cultures and family dynamics, difficult conversations in so many spheres of the public life, right? I mean, all the things that we say, you know, well, we don’t talk about politics and religion, right? It’s like a part of me thinks really, like, why not? Like, why can’t we have those conversations and, and hear each other and grow and heal. And so I think when we felt like we were at that moment of, we’ve got something that feels like it’s a massive step forward. Right? Like when people have these skills, those conversations don’t feel so hard communication is better conflict is less, I think we all kind of had the sense that we were at the precipice of something that could just be explosive. So when I, when I look back and think about where we were, am I impressed? And, like, blown away by how different leadership has taken us to where we are and how well it’s been executed? Yes, I would say I’m impressed. Am I Am I proud of a small part of that with many other, you know, key people? Yes. But am I surprised by where we are? I think honestly, I would say I’m not. And I hope if we sit down for a 200th podcast episode, that I’m also telling you, I’m not surprised that we’ve had yet another exponential leap forward in terms of what the foundation can impact because I think we’re, I think bright, definitely on the rise of growth. But I think there’s, you know, almost an endless amount of things that we could continue to grow into an impact. It’s

Adam Salgat 14:44
so cool to hear you reflect on that and to think about the depth of the passion and just knowing like what you knew and how he felt about it, because I was talking to my financial advisor last week, and I was talking to him about 401 k’s and everything. I Like, organization I’m at right now, if I can be there in 20 years, I’m gonna be there in 20 years like I really truly feel that way. So it’s it’s that passion, I think that is helping propel the Chapman foundation forward. It’s so many people also have helped propel this organization forward. be remiss if I didn’t mention Bob himself, to be honest, I think he’s a name that I certainly want to bring up without him. And Cynthia looking at how do we bring this to the community? Yeah, I mean, that’s pretty huge. Yeah, and I love that.

Leanne Van Beek 15:33
Yep, I’m with you. And I know I, we probably are having the same thought about like, we’re probably thinking of names and faces, and you know, all these different people that over the years we’ve been here have played such pivotal roles. And it’s, I think the kind of thing that resonates with me the most is, no matter who that passion, that like vision, that desire to make a deep impact, I think that was so authentic and genuine, and everyone that, you know, I really had a chance to work with,

Adam Salgat 15:59
I agree, there’s definitely been a few faces that have flashed in my memory here of those that have helped help the organization also help this podcast to kind of bring it back to you know, the idea of this 100th episode, I wouldn’t be here without a handful of people who have helped me get better, will also help support the content. I mean, there was some episodes that were you know, fully just me sitting down and working with someone else. And they brought everything to the table, right. And so I just had to bring me I had to bring the mics, and I had to bring some edit skills to clean it up, you know, a little things like that. And so I’m very thankful for the impact that I know, they had a hand in when it came to this, when it came to this podcast. Is there anything else you’d like to add about the idea of the podcast? Or where maybe you hope to see it go? And then you know, the next 100? Because yeah, it’d be sweet to sit down for 200.

Leanne Van Beek 16:49
I fully anticipate we will write, I still think the podcast is a vehicle that has tremendous amount of potential, it’s just so accessible, it’s easy, people can do it on a commute. I don’t know enough about the technical ways to kind of organize and sort like podcast episodes. But I think if there was an opportunity for people to be able to go through and figure out like, how do I put myself on a track where I can just focus on 10 episodes on empathy, or, you know, 10 episodes of effective confrontation until I feel like I’ve really got that down. That could be kind of cool. But I also just think the storytelling that you’re doing is, is so key, because getting to hear the perspectives of different people and realizing like, wow, if they’re doing that at their organization, that gives me a lot of hope of what I could do here. Or, man, if they were over to come, they were able to overcome that in their marriage. Like, that gives me some hope. Maybe that, you know, we still do have new things we can try. So yeah, I guess that’s maybe kind of a generic answer.

Adam Salgat 17:47
Yeah. Well, I greatly appreciate it and you’re in, you’ve given me some thoughts, my wheels already turned it on, like different ideas, different things we could do. I do agree with you, the real life examples are outstanding. As we wrap up, I want to mention the CFCC leads app, because you’re listening to this podcast, and I’m sure you’ve found it across any different platform. But I do want to mention that in the app. There. You know, all the podcasts are listed there. There’s also videos in there, plenty of other interactive tools, and you know, our monthly newsletter. But there’s something I specifically want to mention that if you’re at the end of this episode, and you’re still listening with us, I want to say if you would take the time to go underneath the menu, there is a link to share your story. We would love to hear your story, whether that is directly related to maybe how that podcast has had an impact or how you’ve continued to utilize the podcast. Or if you just want to share how the organization has had an impact on you, your organization, your personal life. Any of that if you want to take a moment to go fill out there, share your story. We’d appreciate it. And thank you for joining me today. It’s always a blast to reminisce and hope everyone enjoyed learning a little bit more about how this came about. Thanks for having me.

Adam Salgat 19:14
Welcome to today’s skills snippet with me again, like I mentioned in our prior skill snippet, Leanne Van Beek is here. We and is here is with our facilitator lens on today. Welcome to the skill snippet, Leanne.

Leanne Van Beek 19:26
Thanks for having me.

Adam Salgat 19:27
So this is a continuation of our nonverbal skills snippet where we talked about the effect technology has when it comes to communicating and how we lose our nonverbals. And this base, gave a couple of good tips and suggestions on how we could improve that or what ways that we can keep that in mind. But this next one is a little bit more about talking about our nonverbals leveling up in a space when we’re already face to face. And so we’re going to talk about when’s the right time to amplify nonverbals And when’s the right time to potentially constrain or restrain your nonverbal. So tell me a little bit about what you’re talking about when you say amplify your nonverbals. What does that look like?

Leanne Van Beek 20:08
Sure, absolutely. And I think this is a really, hopefully empowering thing for people to consider that, even though we sometimes are aware that our nonverbals happen reactively this is more about how can I be even more proactive with my nonverbal skill set, maybe I’ve been working really hard to identify what I do. But I might not have thought before about sort of my general effect, okay. And for some people, they do tend to have a more either neutral, or sometimes I’ve heard people describe themselves as having a

Adam Salgat 20:35
flat effect. I was gonna say that fly, it’s the word that I’ve heard often, yeah, you just

Leanne Van Beek 20:40
tend to have a more neutral face. And you may be a person who you frequently hear other people say, I can’t read you, I can’t tell what you’re thinking. And those can be cues to recognize that in moments that maybe are more emotional, or just maybe it’s important to communicate a certain message, I may choose to amplify my nonverbals, I may choose to intentionally stretch to a point where it maybe feels a little, you know, a little clunky to me. But for example, I might choose to intentionally smile when someone is pitching a new idea of something that we could go and do for the weekend. And just let them know, like, yeah, I could, I’m excited about that. Maybe I can tell that they’re hopeful, or they’re trying to connect with me, that might be one way to do it. And so amplifying, is to just think about how do I strategically lift up my nonverbals to maybe a higher level where other people can perceive them more easily.

Adam Salgat 21:35
I love the example of thinking about what you’re doing when someone might be pitching something or bringing something up to you. And I think there’s two elements, there might be if you’re the person who’s a little more flat, that, you know, you’re you’re letting them know, through your nonverbals that you are excited to spend time with them. But also when thinking about they might have something on your mind. So their nonverbals are not correlating with the true message that they want to send to this person. Right. So it’s a benefit of, you know, having that self reflection in both spaces. Yeah,

Leanne Van Beek 22:04
I think you’re right. And I think sometimes it’s, it doesn’t even necessarily have to be maybe that you’re trying to communicate a certain emotion. But for example, I’ve heard people say that when they listen, they tend to be very still and very straight faced. And so you might find that really simple nonverbals like just shifting your position to lean forward, you know, maybe put your elbows on your knees and be closer to the person or to be more intentional about knotting from time to time, little things like that. Again, it may not feel natural at first. But if you recognize that you are getting misinterpreted, then it may be more important to think about what are ways I can be more intentional and sort of again, amplify how I use my nonverbals in a space where I might not otherwise, it

Adam Salgat 22:49
reminds me also of a story that a good friend of mine who he was talking about how his nonverbals are often misinterpreted, because he’ll stand with his arms crossed across his chest, which as we know, is kind of a universal sign of maybe upset or, you know, building wall, right that he’s also a bigger fellow, you know, six foot 225 250 pounds, and he’s just a solid dude. So like, you’ve got that physical statue, standing there with his arms crossed. Well, he has told people in the past, I’m doing that because my arms are heavy, and I rest them up on my chest. This is a comfortable thing for me. It’s not about being upset at what you’re talking to me about. It’s not about being combative, or me putting up a wall. But he says he’s aware of that. So at times, he knows he’s got to be able to step back from those spaces and amplify something else. Yeah,

Leanne Van Beek 23:43
that’s it. You know, it’s a great example, because I think it also touches on the importance of considering your nonverbals, especially in spaces with someone who doesn’t know you well. So I’m guessing when he hangs out with you doesn’t have to probably worry about it. No,

Adam Salgat 23:56
not so much. No, because I we have that relationship that if something was wrong, he’d tell me, you know, or I’m not afraid to ask. And if he tells me no. Then I have that trust. We have that trust built between the two of us. But yes, work, but when he’s working with new people are working with, you know, anyone that might not know him as well. Yeah, I’m sure he runs into. So we talked a little bit there about the idea of recognizing something. And in a way he’s restraining that nonverbal, right, he needs to pull that back. But what other ways are we potentially, you know, thinking about restraining nonverbals maybe when it comes to like high emotions? Yeah,

Leanne Van Beek 24:34
that’s a great point. So I mean, I would put myself in the category of someone who probably has high nonverbals. I’m constantly told that if somebody were to tape my eyebrows in place, I wouldn’t be able to talk because I just apparently they move a lot and I use hand gestures. And I know I’m very expressive. So I have also thankfully, I have a colleague who I’m really good friends with and he has shared with me before that if someone comes in and their nonverbals are high, and the emotion is high, for whatever reason, based on his experiences, he will actually just shut down in the face of that much to what feels like to him that much emotion, right? Like, it’s just he loses the message, because it’s almost like there’s too many inputs coming at him. So yeah, so for me, I think about this from a couple lenses from a work lens, I know that when I go into a meeting with him, I try to be much more still than what I normally am. For me, it’s a way to sort of restrain my nonverbals, to bring the kind of the pace and the feel of the conversation to just a more steady, non distracting place. I hope that’s helpful for him, you know, when we’re in those spaces, it seems to be. But I also reflect on the importance of me restraining my nonverbals in a really personal situation, which I bet many people can relate to. But the end of the day, when maybe you and your spouse or your partner are coming together for the very first time, I know that my husband has a more neutral effect. So when he comes home, I can’t read him. And when he comes home, I am usually very high with my nonverbals. Because I’m usually at a point of, you know, I’m probably sighing or I’m rolling my eyes, it’s like I have so many things I want to tell him about, you know, that happens during my day. And when we come in with that imbalance, I think I hit him with way more motion than he’s ready to handle in that first moment coming in the door. So I have also tried to work to restrain my nonverbals in that way, I don’t feel like smiling always, when he comes home and walks through the door, because I’m just ready to unload all the things that have happened. But when I can sort of bring again, my energy down, just smile, give him a hug, let him walk past me, and then maybe later on in the evening, you know, be able to get into that we have much healthier interactions. So I think sometimes restraining your nonverbals from those points can be can be helpful for the other person. And for you

Adam Salgat 27:00
two things here. First of all, I want to say thank you for sharing a personal story in that personal space with you and your husband. And second, it’s similar to my wife and I. And I’ve like and, you know, I like the visual of if I’m a sponge, and I’m walking in already full from the day. And I haven’t had a chance to wring myself out and make space for anything. And I’m full, and everything that she’s saying is just washing over me, I now am absorbing none of it. Almost none of it, like it’s just pouring off to the side, like the sponge is too saturated. I’m too saturated. And it’s just we’re not really truly connecting. So I have thought to myself, you know, maybe I need to take a little bit of time, just five minutes, if it’s still in the driveway, if it’s on my drive home, whatever it might be to, like really think about like, Okay, I need to set myself up for walking into a situation where she’s probably going to want to share her day, she has a natural Cher, she has a wonderful heart on her sleeve woman. So it’s, it’s like that’s, that’s who she is naturally. So if I know I’m stepping towards that I need to maybe prep myself as best I can to do that. I love that. Because I want to be careful about asking her and you made reference to this, you know, you know that about your husband as well. And you’ve maybe asked him about like, Hey, what’s going on? Like, I’m trying to do this, because I’ve certainly talked to Becky about, you know, I need a moment I need, you know, like I can’t listen right now, I want to be careful about not asking them to be someone they’re not. And so what we’ve been talking about here is, you know, the foundational element of style flexing, but we need to be true to ourselves style, too. Is that right? I mean, we don’t want to come across fake and we want to continue to be our genuine self.

Leanne Van Beek 28:50
Yes, absolutely. So I love that you mentioned style flexing, because for those who maybe it’s been a while since you’ve been in class, the kind of main points we try to really, really emphasize with style flexing Are you do it at key times, temporarily. And it’s because your motive is the benefit of the relationship, the benefit of the other person, the benefit for you, right? Like the idea that I’m doing this with a good reason. And I want to step into that space. Not that I’m feeling forced to or I feel like I’m being fake. We all know that trying something new can feel awkward and uncomfortable. So to a certain extent, it’s not going to feel natural. But I do think there’s a distinction there. So if I am going to try to restrain my nonverbals you’re right, I’m probably doing that for the minute and a half that my husband and I first interact. I’m not going to continue to try to hold my emotions in for the rest of the week. Right. Right. So

Adam Salgat 29:48
it’s an opportunity to give give a personal space for the benefit of the relationship. Yeah,

Leanne Van Beek 29:53
yeah, in some ways. I think of it as just giving a gift right to temporarily try to adjust so that they feel You know, like they get what they need in that moment. That to me is is a powerful a powerful way to connect.

Adam Salgat 30:05
When as we wrap up this skill snippet, is there anything else you would like to add? About nonverbals?

Leanne Van Beek 30:12
I think I’ll just say that self awareness is so key. So to just, you know, again, really try to pay attention to the things that you know that maybe when you’re doing it, you just recognize that it’s something’s going off the rails. To me, that’s a great point to just stop and ask, is there something else I could try here amplifying, restraining, that may just get me a different outcome.

Adam Salgat 30:34
Thank you so much, Leanne. I appreciate your time and hope everybody has benefited from today’s skill snippet.