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097-Got Your Six: A Conversation w/National Guardsmen

So what happens when two 20-year military service members join forces to lead with empathy? Tune in to find out.

The phrase “military leadership” typically evokes images of commanders and noncommissioned officers leading heroic charges or generals directing armies. In reality, however, most leadership in the armed forces is far more gentle. In little ways, all day long, at all levels, commanders and subordinates communicate just like in any other workplace environment.

As a beacon guiding a ship through turbulent waters, effective communication can steer our military forces. It fosters trust, builds team cohesion, and translates ideas into action. The courses provided by the Chapman Foundation are a set of tools that create tangible actions to help make human connections and create strong leaders. But remember, all new skills, like a muscle, need to be worked on to become stronger. And to get stronger faster, it helps to have an accountability buddy. Or, in today’s case, a Chief Master Sergeant in the National Guard.

A little over two years ago, Matt Robins, a colonel in the National Guard, stepped into Our Community Listens course not knowing what to expect but looking forward to the opportunity to grow. While in the class, he met Jody Nitz, and as you will learn in the coming conversation, the two men have supported each other ever since. Listen as Matt shares how excited he was to bring Jody on as his Chief Master Sergeant in the National Guard and how they have excelled in their communication skills over a short time because they are both pulling tools out of the same toolbox, all to serve better the people they lead.

Colonel Matt Robins has served the military for 22 years and was always drawn to fighter pilots as a young boy. He says he enjoys being “the glue” between broad strategic goals and supporting tactical leaders who are striving to accomplish specific missions. After serving at the Pentagon, where he used airplanes to positively affect the battlefield, Colonel Robins now resides in Clinton Township Michigan. He has been married to his wife for 23 years. They have two kids, two cats, one dog, and five fish. In his spare time, he likes building furniture, painting model figures, going out on his sailboat, and pretending to be handy around the house.

Chief Master Sergeant Jody Nitz is also in his 22nd year of service. He originally joined the National Guard as a way to pay for schooling to become a registered respiratory therapist but quickly became accustomed to the military way of life. He loved the camaraderie and shared goals as they mirrored the many sports teams he grew up for. Chief Master Sergeant Nitz is thankful for his military family and also the opportunity to see many parts of the world and be immersed in various cultures. He now resides in Bay City, Michigan, with his wife of 15 years, two children, and toy poodle. In his free time, he enjoys anything outdoors, including hunting and fishing. He loves passing those skills to his children. He also enjoys gathering with friends and chatting about life over drinks whenever possible.

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Unknown Speaker 0:11
On the listen first podcast, you’ll join us as we connect with an array of fascinating guests from varying backgrounds and perspectives to explore how we can build and become leaders that transform their families, workplaces and communities. Tune in for insight on mastering skills like active listening, verbal and nonverbal communication, understanding behavioral tendencies and appreciating individuality.

Unknown Speaker 0:47
Hello, and welcome to the listen first podcast. I’m your host, Adam Salgat. So what happens when 220 year military service members join forces to lead with empathy, tune in to find out

Unknown Speaker 1:09
the phrase military leadership typically evokes images of commanders and noncommissioned officers leading heroic charges or generals directing armies. In reality, however, most leadership in the Armed Forces is far more gentle in little ways all day long. At all levels, commanders and subordinates communicate just like any other workplace environment. As the beacon guiding a ship through turbulent waters, effective communication can steer our military forces. It fosters trust, build team cohesion, and translate ideas into action. The course is provided by the Chapman Foundation, our set of communication tools that create tangible actions to help make human connections and create strong leaders. But remember, all new skills just like a muscle need to be worked to become stronger, and to get stronger, faster. It helps to have an accountability buddy, or in today’s case, a chief master sergeant in the National Guard.

Unknown Speaker 2:09
A little over two years ago, Matt Robbins, a colonel in the National Guard stepped into the our community lessons course not knowing what to expect, but looking forward to the opportunity to grow. While in the class, he met Jody knits. And as you will learn in the coming conversation, the two men have supported each other ever since. Listen, as Matt shares how excited he was to hire Jodi as his chief master sergeant, and how they have excelled in their communication skills over a short time because they are both pulling tools out of the same toolbox to better serve all of the people that they lead. Colonel Matt Robbins has served in the military for 22 years and was always drawn to fighter pilots as a young boy. He says he enjoys being the glue between broad strategic goals and supporting technical leaders who are striving to accomplish specific missions after serving at the Pentagon, where he used planes to positively affect the battlefield. Colonel Robbins now resides in Clinton Township, Michigan. He has been married to his wife for 23 years. They have two kids, two cats, one dog and five fish. In his spare time, he likes building furniture, painting model figures going out on a sailboat and in his words, pretending to be handy around the house. Chief Master Sergeant Jody knit is also in his 22nd year of service. He originally joined the National Guard as a way to pay for schooling to become a registered respiratory therapist but quickly became accustomed to the military way of life. He loved the camaraderie and shared goals as they mirrored the many sports teams he grew up playing for Chief Master Sergeant knits is thankful for his military family and also the opportunity to see many parts of the world and be immersed in various cultures. He now resides in base at Michigan with his wife of 15 years, two children and toy poodle in his free time he enjoys anything outdoors, including hunting and fishing. He loves passing those skills on to his children. And whenever possible, He also enjoys gathering with his friends and chatting about life over drinks.

Unknown Speaker 4:29
Matt, Jody, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. Thanks for having us. I’d love to hear the story about how you guys met. Tell me about your first interactions there in the our community lessons class. Sure. So we met as students and our community listens. And oddly enough, we had been working in the same base in for almost two years and zero interaction. Yeah, up to that point. And that that’s how we met in a in a class and introducing our

Unknown Speaker 5:00
selves and getting to know one another during our community listens about two years ago, a little over two years ago. And Jody, you you’ve mentioned once before that when you walked in and you saw the name placards, on the on the tables, and then you got to think, why’d they sit me next to this guy? So tell me about that experience? Sure. You know, it’s always you walk in and you’re like, what is the reasoning behind this? You know, you’re in this U shape and like, why am I next to this guy on the end, and you know, so it all sort of opened our eyes to it when they started going through sort of the disk, the disk tendencies and whatnot, but ended up working out great for me. So I got to learn a lot about them and introduce when we introduce each other, and it was really a great activity. And it’s really a maybe a dumb luck thing for me to be able to sit next to him to end up working with them down the road. Yeah, working with them down the road. Tell me about that. Sure. So when I when I walked into the class and saw all the the name cards, and I didn’t, I didn’t even know what I was getting into, I was happy to have the opportunity to, to grow professionally. And the fact that we have this time in the National Guard to focus on being better leaders, and but I was the only officer in the class that day, everyone else was enlisted. And then the the military has a very hierarchy, rule based system that that has his time in place. And I was the only officer and that was a mental barrier to get over. And it was a bit of a challenge. And I think we all embrace that everyone in the class, it’s one of the fun things about going through our community listens and your fellow students having that opportunity. But yeah, so that’s that was what that was like. And then later in life, about half a year later, I had the need for a senior enlisted leader and Jody and happened to be one of the competitive folks that was on the list. And having been through the class together, I we both knew what are each other’s behavioral tendencies was and were able to build on that common language. And so it made it a very straightforward choice, despite the very competitive nature of these senior leader jobs. And I was I was blessed to have him in the list and be able to choose them. And since then, like, you know, the rest of history, you could say, but we’ve had the opportunity to work together in our organization to try to help bring joy have a better have a better organization for God, tell me a little bit about what a senior enlisted leader does for for Matt? Ooh, that’s a great question, Adam, generally, a senior enlisted leader and the commander sort of work hand in hand, you know, so my job is to assist him and maybe translating the commander’s direction as to leadership with the troops, you know, so I’m sort of like a translator, to others below that, you know, and then assist with, you know, obtaining resources and manpower. And you don’t necessarily do a lot of the work, but you facilitate getting everything that the people below you need to be successful and do their jobs. So my really, my job is really can be as a liaison between him in the people below. So Matt, tell me how then these communication skills have really helped the two of you, you know, work together. I know you guys have mentioned, you know, similar tool sets, similar common language, how’s that made a difference for the two of you? It’s been night and day. And one of the great things about it is that that common language said, but just want to go back a little bit with what God was saying to and that it’s essential to have someone that can help you train translate, in his words of, you know, like, we imagined in the movies, like go take that hill or go do that job, go do and, you know, why is the commander saying that, and then you have this person that’s able to, like, be with the airman and the troops and explain the why behind that. And you know, and that’s essential, but it’s equally essential to have someone that like, you know, Hey, sir, Hey, Matt, like this is this is where the this is, where the morale of the unit is that this is what’s actually going on things that you may see. So he’s also eyes and ears and translate, translates back up, and that and every commander and senior enlisted leader in the Department of Defense has that relationship. But we I think are blessed having been through the art community listens and serves and transforms because now we have a very practical set of tools and a common language to talk about, how do we go about doing that? And it helps a lot. Right, we are each other sounding boards and private, right of the, here’s the things that I am struggling with, and hey, God, like, let me let’s talk through this before I go and make a major decision or stumble. Right? How can we best help the chairman of this mission set, go forward? And that is priceless. Right. And certainly it’s brought us closer together, we often talk about how working relationship that we have is one of the strongest that I’ve ever had in, in my military career. And how do you go about building that right? How do you build a 20 year relationship in a year and a half, but I think I think we have that and I would, that that goes to our ability to communicate with one another

Unknown Speaker 10:00
And that begins with having the skills that we learned in our community listens. And I hate to say, but like the kindergarten skills, and they seem simple at the beginning, but they’re actually not theirs. They’re actually very complex. And I’m happy to have someone that works with me that we can do that together. Yep, I’ve had a prior guests kind of say the same kind of thing about those skills that they almost feel like, you know, common sense. But in the end, applying them and consistently applying them is a difficult thing to continue to do. Like, it’s not just simple common sense to always do it, right. And that’s where we really want to get to common sense and common courtesy. It’s not common, we got to work at it every day. And here we are 20 years into our careers of I think that’s a very valid point. And I think that’s the benefit of us having gone through the gamut of Chapman Foundation’s curriculum from listens to serves the transforms, and then our offices are right next to each other. So like, in a way we hold ourselves accountable, because we’re digging into the same sort of tool bag. You know, I tried to think of an analogy, like if I had DeWalt tools, and you had Milwaukee Tools, there are different batteries, and they don’t interchange, but if we all are digging into the same set of tools, my battery’s dead, right, he’s got an battery to put right on my tool to help keep me going. Because we’re all digging into the same sort of toolbox. Having gone through it literally in the same class. Together. That’s awesome to hear. Yeah, and I love that analogy. I’m gonna RYOBI guy just

Unknown Speaker 11:31
what have the skills then unlocked? Has it maybe unlocked more productivity? Like you’ve already mentioned? You’ve your connection is stronger, but anything else that the skills have unlocked? Wow, that’s a tough question like, a lot. Like, yes. So that’s not what our listeners want to hear. You know, between us, I think it’s certain, certainly, we were able to hit the ground running, I had been in my position for a couple of years. And, you know, we’re always trying to grow professionally, and so on. So I was excited to have the opportunity to have a new senior enlisted leader, and we were able to try to sustain that, that cultural reform, right that his predecessor was, but now we’re able to, we didn’t have to take the time to get to know one and one another. Because we had that shared experience that without this class we would not have and that opportunity to shared during the class and the way it’s facilitated and practicing the skills during the class with one another. So I mean, it was, it’s, we’ve been firing on all cylinders since day one. Awesome. Yeah, I mean, I completely agree. I mean, you took the time, and like in a class, you know, six to 10 months earlier, to get to know each other on the human level. So then, when you’re trying to sort of lead together as a team, right, you know, sort of his tendencies, he knows mine, and you don’t have to, like dance around each other and be afraid, like, you know, we know. And we can make mistakes, and it’s okay to make mistakes, because we know each other on the human level, and it just makes, it makes it easier. And then even talking about our families and things like that at work was because a lot of times you bring, you know, sort of the stressors of home into work. And you know, like you could notice, like, Hey, this is outside of your demeanor, you know, is going on. And so I think it just it’s just bad that relationship, essentially, in three days, getting to just talk not on a mission, just talk as humans. At that point,

Unknown Speaker 13:37
I absolutely love hearing the two of you talk about how it’s really been able to like speed up the relationship between the two of you. But tell me a little bit if it’s helped at all, and changing relationships or the culture with the rest of your military members that you’ve worked with, I think the most significant impact that we’ve had is on an individual level, where we sit in our triangle right of supporting all of these people that are working to defend their nation, and you’re right and share share their talents and time with us. We’ve had we’ve tried to take every opportunity we can to hear them and try to find what is the real need? Because I

Unknown Speaker 14:16
don’t want to say that the military is always like the movies, but you imagine this like hey, the mission first. Take that hill, right. And there’s a time and place for that. But we but we do want to put people first before mission. And so how do you do that? And we’ve been practicing that at the individual level with our subordinate leaders, and the frontline leaders as well as just the airmen that that we get to interact with and being able to impact hopefully impact their lives, but really understand what’s going on with them and listen to them. Find out what is the real problem so that the policies and orders that we as a command team put out have the impact we want right like every commander out there, every single enlisted leader is trying to do the right thing.

Unknown Speaker 15:00
And it’s good to have this tool set of huge tools to really help each one of those people in their and their situations. God, I know, you’ve mentioned once before about, you know, connecting with them, making them feel heard, and how that can help improve retention, you know, absolutely, I’ve really struggled in years past with my, you know, very direct tendencies and being a task Completer is I would always be multitasking, you know, somebody would come in, and hey, can I talk to you and, like you sure sit down, but then I’m still typing an email, and maybe they don’t feel truly heard. And then because they’re not feeling truly heard, or they may feel like they’re bothering you, then you don’t get to sort of that root cause of what they need from you. And maybe there’s an issue that they want to address, and you could have helped had you truly listened. But if you don’t take the time to do that, then maybe that’s somebody that doesn’t reenlist and doesn’t stay in our ranks. So if we, if we take the time to push our chair to the side and look him in the eye and and truly listen, to see what’s going on, you can get to that sort of do a root cause analysis as to you know, why did they come to you? What do they really need? Sometimes, you know, I’ve been in conversations, and you might see that little bit that’s above the surface, and you start asking the right questions, or letting them just keep talking. And using the door openers, like you guys have taught us and come to find out, there’s an entirely different thing that you can really help them with, you know, sometimes, you know, that’s our job is to help them be successful to do the job. I don’t know, I don’t necessarily do the job. I’m just a facilitator, to help them get the tools, right. But if I don’t listen, I don’t know what tools they need. So I think that’s the value I have gained is to stop multitasking, listen to your people, get to know them on the human level, to you know, what they need to make them successful. When I think about military, oftentimes, and you touched on this a little bit, Matt, about the idea of take that hill, like take the order, whatever it is, yes, sir. But we’ve learned in our community lessons and through disc profiles, that there’s so many different types of personalities, some people may respond to that, and that’s what they want. They just want to be told what to do, and they’re good to go. Other people are gonna ask themselves, but why? Why are why are we doing this? Tell me a little bit about how that has helped you become a better leader in knowing that there are different behavioral styles out there that you can try to connect with on different levels, boys as a better leader? Because right, we certainly do issue issue orders and

Unknown Speaker 17:34
lay out what is the requirements of the job, but as far as being able to assess behavioral tendencies, that’s certainly helped by really, when it comes to assigning,

Unknown Speaker 17:47
though no one make it all sound military, of course, right. But like when when we assign a task to a lower organization, you know, as an example, I set the intent of this is the this is my need, if you will like to get up to go to the art community serves kind of nomenclature, but here’s what my need is, but I want to make sure that it’s understood and that that person is getting what they need, that they hear it that their lens has sees. So because I want them to put all of their talent into going and getting that, right, so like having the ability to sort out what is their behavioral tendency, some people will like, hey, I need that hill taken right now I need that airplane launched right now. And like said, that works. It’s like, hey, versus the, maybe the more I or s, where a these are, these are, why I need it to be done. And let them solve the rest of it. And it opens up our eyes a little bit more to the why behind the mindset of, you know, if there’s an order that we have to give, you know, how is it going to be taken like so if you know, each person on the individual level, like they teach us and listens, you know, Is this person a processor, which means that it may take them a while to process that and they’re going to internalize and think about it for a while versus myself, you know, like from playing sports and be in the military. I’m a I’m a heavy D, and somebody tells me something to do. And I’m like, Okay, I’ll go do it. Yeah, sounds good. It’s a hierarchy that you’re ready to follow, right? I’m a task Completer. That’s what I do. But just because people have a different behavioral tendency doesn’t make me right and them wrong, or vice versa. It just makes us different. And if we understand each other on that level, it helps us to maybe be a little bit more patient or give them grace to process to internalize that change and then accept it and run with it.

Unknown Speaker 19:35
As a leader and in the idea of, you know, militaries chain of command. How do you think having leaders learn to listen with that empathy can make a difference? I mean, you talked about your tension, Jodi but anything you’d want to add Oh, man,

Unknown Speaker 19:49
I absolutely. All these examples are running through my mind but that that empathy in the leading like you just asked about, you know, how do you how do you talk to people based on the behavioral tendencies and it’s just as

Unknown Speaker 20:00
portant whenever, like, right when things go right, and you want to give the right praise, but also sometimes things go wrong, and that that ability to empathize and listen and get

Unknown Speaker 20:10
to be self aware enough to know when my emotions are running high and that I’m not in the mood to make a decision or, or be the best and also for the people that we’re talking to. So as an empathetic leader, it’s been absolutely key. And one of my recent examples was exactly one of those of hey, here is our, you know, people first mentality of why we, you know, go take care of people, but then the, you get to metrics or the dashboard, or whatever it is that, you know, that signifies that we’re maybe failing at that, or that we’re struggling in that in my, my behavioral tendencies, like, what are we doing? Why is this wrong, but then to have that self awareness of taking, taking back like, alright, that’s my behavioral tendency, but now let’s really get to the bottom of it, and having that conversation with, you know, a lower ranking military member, right, but it’s still a human being that is trying to do the best thing and talking through it at that logical level. And that, that means so much, I’d like to think that it meant so much to the other person as well, right, that they didn’t, they’re trying to do the best they can, and they actually have more information than I did. And going into it with that people first mentality, like, got to a solution to that problem. That makes sense to everyone. Whereas before our community serves, it might have come out drastically different. I mean, that’s just absolutely priceless, right? Because that’s one paper cut or one abrasive interaction with with the boss that that we avoided that didn’t never needed to happen. Let me ask you, and I don’t want to paint you in any type of light that I don’t know about. But prior to taking our community lessons, which was your leadership may be a little bit different in that it, you might not have been as open to connect with them, I will openly admit that I am not a great reflective listener. I when I listen to people talk about problems, what’s going through my mind is how can I solve that or like that you should have done this or that. And that, but that’s not our role, right? Our role is to help people achieve their success and to align everyone’s success into the same same motion, right like to align our values and after our community really serves, and certainly with listens, yeah, I think I’m a different person. I’d like to think I’m a better person, but I’m certainly on a on a path to doing better. Your project. Yeah, absolutely. Right. And we’re before all this, I don’t I don’t think I was there still, gotcha. Doing all those things that we learned about in our community listens, if not being a good reflective listener, and your wing man over here, tell me a little bit about yourself, like after going through these courses, and I know you’ve you’re even stepping in to be a facilitator for our community lessons. You know, a lot of it is in it’s your approach and how you approach a conversation. And I think that’s, like Matt had said earlier, you know, some of the stuff maybe what I like is I call this as like education and leadership to the Crayola level, which is where I learn, when you look at going into a conversation, you guys talk about the going in with the open hands approach versus swinging the bat. And, you know, early in my career, he was a bat swinger, right for the fence many times in that fractured relationships, and I mean, that simple thing, right, you’re, you’re probably going to just still get the same message across.

Unknown Speaker 23:34
But the way they walk away from that conversation is huge. When it goes into, you know, interning, accomplishing the mission. So what I learned is just, you know, step back, take a minute, think about the conversation before it starts and think about the end goal is you want to, I want to build a relationship with this conversation. I don’t want to fracture it. So if I take a couple seconds to think about my approach, and maybe bring my emotions back into check, before I had that conversation, it’s only better for the team. Gotcha. I normally would congratulate someone on being a home run hitter, maybe, but I don’t think it works well in this analogy, so absolutely not.

Unknown Speaker 24:15
Well, and Adam, if you don’t mind, I want to I want to build on that just a little bit. And maybe I should have said this earlier when you’re talking about empathy as a leader, but I just want to expand on that. And one of the one of the key takeaways that I took from our facilitators, when we were in our community listens is that, you know, this, like I come from a background of of just like God with, you know, the sports and the very task oriented of the seconds cost lives, right in our business often and you want to be decisive and in that moment, and there’s absolutely time and place for that. But what we learned in our community listens is that emotional intelligence and caring for one another doesn’t have to be sunshine and rainbows and we’re not saying I don’t think either one of us are saying that. When we change from a baseball, you know, swing the bat

Unknown Speaker 25:00
approach to a open hands are like, listen, we are still having an impact on the mission. And it’s not just caving or right, like we are using these tools to help everyone do better. And I know that that was a key takeaway that I got from that of our community listens, that this isn’t just giving everybody what they want. That’s not the goal, right? Like, I don’t always get what I want, my subordinates don’t always get what they want. What we’re trying to do is do the best for all of us. And that starts with knowing, as you said earlier, having real relationships actually understanding the real problems, before we swing for the fence, if you if so, right. And before we come in with the bat, and potentially, like you said, God, fractured relationships. Right, right. Absolutely. And I hope all of our listeners, right, if they were going to, we talked about leaders or readers and go, you know, go learn and go be a student of your profession. And often we’re wondering like, well, how, how do we go about doing this? And this has been one opportunity where I think we’re very proud that, that our leaders invested in us gave us the opportunity to go to this class and get these practical skills, and then we’re seeing them put into use that’s it. I said prices earlier, but like, how do you put into words that, you know, here’s to senior leaders, then could have been doing better long before we had access to some of these so called Simple, simple skill sets of doing better for our, for the for the folks that we care about sweating, like one of our mantras now is like investment in people in the military. And I think of that quote from Mr. Chapman, it, it basically goes on, I don’t want to mess it up. But it’s like everything in business begins and ends with people you know, and in the military as a business and building relationships with people can only help the mission succeed, and maybe get there quicker. I love that Absolutely. Anything else you want to add in the idea that your organization is investing in you as leaders. Yeah, and I would throw out that you know how proud I am to be a member of the National Guard, that, right, we’re all competing against everyone for these, for these people, they have talent, right, and we want them to have a happy family life, we want them to be contributing members of their own community as a civilian employee, of someone or business owner. And then we also want them to come here, and knowing that we are putting time and effort and learning these bright lights so that the National Guard’s invested in me and God here, so we can be better taking care of these airmen, and soldiers and we want, we also are going to put time and effort into getting them this access so they can care for their low ranking or their span of control right at home, at their workplace. And then certainly, when they come out with us, like how great is it to be a part of an organization that that’s willing to do that. And not that we weren’t before but this sure that right there’s there’s this methodology that Chapman’s put together, that has been very effective for me and God to put that into use and, and we’re happy that we got invested in in that way. I think for myself and the my peers, and even the subordinates, you know a lot of us, it’s really opened our eyes, I’ve had more investment in myself, and my co workers in the last two, three years from the leadership and the National Guard to sort of invest in people, you know, which, especially in our positions as leaders, knowing how sort of fiscally constrained we are, and budgets keep getting cut, but then there’s a lot of money going towards investing in people to not only be better people in the military, but in turn, especially in the National Guard, better your home life better your relationships with your families, it’s it’s really profound, I think it’s nice to see that investment. And it really resonates with you know, down to the, to the youngest troop when they see that them dollars of what’s being spent.

Unknown Speaker 28:52
That’s awesome to hear as a just a civilian who doesn’t have, you know, anyone in my, you know, circle of life right now, really, that is involved in the military. So it’s really cool to hear that even if, you know, some funds are being allocated or cut in different ways, the investment in people is still there and strong. And you both mentioned about the opportunity to you know, improve home life, right. And that’s something we hear often when people reflect on utilizing these skills. It’s often introduced in their field of work, but they do take it home. So I guess my question is, how are the two of you use these skills at home? Or, you know, what’s your reflection on trying to use these skills at home? Is it is it more difficult than at the workplace? Is it you know, tell me your experience? Well, I remember when I was going to the art community listens as Katie and Jonathan were explaining the skills and you’re right and going through the class. Sure. I was there as a National Guard member, but it had an immediate impact right as you’re listening and going through and like oh, man, I’ve been messing this up at home. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 30:00
A lot been there, we’ve all done a lot and still am, right? Like, as still certainly do, I’m sure everyone in my household would would, would agree with with that. But it’s, it’s been great to have that opportunity to become more self aware, right? Like my job at work is to take care of people. And then when I go home, I want to be me. And the work isn’t over, right? Like not not that my family’s work. But what I’m saying is that, like, I have to continue to be self aware, I have to understand what my role is in their lives, and, and fit their needs, just like I do it at work. And that’s been super challenging. But now I can describe the challenge that where I could not before of what, of what I was doing wrong. And now Now I do see that more often. And that’s given me the opportunity to maybe do better. Gotcha. What about you, God, I know, you’ve mentioned to me before about learning and serves, I believe about the five to one ratio, you know, five attaboys, compared to one, you know, constructive criticism. And now, that might be a little out of balance, sometimes for you. And I will say respectfully, as a father myself, definitely out of balance. For me, I think about it all the time. Like, you know, I correct them when they’re doing such and such, but man, am I telling them when they’re doing it right to? I don’t know. Yeah, when you when you have more of a self awareness, and even social awareness with other people’s behavioral tendencies, and how to sort of get clued in even if my daughter is 11 years old. And you know, as an athlete, for a lot of years, my coach would tell me to do something, I would do it or give you constructive criticism, I have the tendency to do that a lot at home. And maybe that doesn’t resonate well with my daughter, because you know, data, you’re always telling me that the bad things I did, versus highlighting the good things. And I think, again, some of this curriculum, it just opens her eyes to, when you hear them comments, like, Okay, I see, I see that now. And maybe I need to focus more on the good things, you know that that five to one ratio, they taught us and transforms, it’s an important thing. But it’s easier to pick up on when these these skills are sort of put in front of you. And you’re and sort of explained in a in a different light. I think there’s a lot of value there. I mean,

Unknown Speaker 32:10
I, I really struggle with these skills more at home than at work. Maybe part of it just sitting here looking at Matt as he’s my wing man at work. So he’s in the office right next to me, so he can hold me accountable if I’m not doing it, right versus when I go home. Nobody else has been through that curriculum. So nobody can tell me, hey, you know where you taught this to do this now? All right, maybe I’m a little fearful. But in 10 days, my wife has taken the course. So now I’m going to have a wing man at home to tell me like, hey, and then they teach you in this course to do this, like what’s going on here. So we’ll see how that happens. But I think it’ll be nice to have at home, my wife holding me accountable to better utilize these skills to improve our marriage in our relationship with our children. I think that’s wonderful. That is a great attitude to have. And I hope everything goes smoothly for you. Because my wife and I both been through the class. And yes, we certainly do kind of keep each other accountable. I’ve said this before, that, you know, we were never in a spot where these skills needed to, quote, save our marriage. But what they have definitely done is helped us maintain our marriage maintain a healthy open communication, the ability to talk to each other, and just like the two of you have talked about in your work relationship together, the idea of being able to pull from the same toolbox. Right? So it’s definitely worth it.

Unknown Speaker 33:39
Gentlemen, thank you both for being here today and to speaking in to speak to us from the military lens. It’s much appreciated, knowing that, you know, the work that we’re doing out there with military is having an effect on on people.

Unknown Speaker 33:53
As we wrap up the podcast, give me your key takeaway from the course or whether it’s listened serves just the Chapman foundation as a whole something that has made an impact on your life. Matt, why don’t you go first? Sure. Now my key takeaway from doing the Chapman foundation classes has been a lot about self awareness that I learned in the art community listens, but I really appreciated the actual practical applications between serves and transforms of being able to take that into the workplace and at home,

Unknown Speaker 34:24
of being able to understand or hopefully understanding what’s getting in the way of the mission, right, like we can’t do anything without people. We talked about earlier to people business and having that self awareness of when I’m ruining that has been the most important thing that I’ve that I’ve taken away and not always good at taking care of people but being able to know that I’ve messed it up and need to go back and, and and fix something that has been why I advocate for this kind of development. You gotta you gotta get in there and and learn people. Yep. And that’s self awareness.

Unknown Speaker 35:00
Through you, I’m sure allows you to get there quicker, absolutely what it was absolutely years years ago, avoiding avoiding those destructive behaviors and, and ignoring other people’s lenses, right? Like all those your silky. Jodi, I’m sitting here just internalizing your question and there’s, there’s, I guess multiple things I want to say, you know, we’re talking sort of on the military lens and how it’s, you know, helped improve sort of our team dynamic. And again, it’s I’ve seen immense benefits at home with my children. But I’ve also worked 20 years in medicine in the military, and I, as a medical provider, we have to listen to our patients. And I feel like we’re losing that somewhat from teaching for years, and I would really love to incorporate some of this stuff into, like medical education, so we can bring back some of that compassionate care and you know, sort of that empathy, you know, our care enveloped in empathy, which I don’t Maybe that’s my secret, underlying mission, you know, like, our time is always short in the military. And always, you know, we we near the end of our careers, but

Unknown Speaker 36:10
I think there’s a lot of value to building back human level connections here. And I think medical field is a big one. I mean, it’s it’s big everywhere, but I would love to see this in medicine. So it sounds like using it in medicine, really, but to drive home the idea of human connection. Right. Absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 36:31
Well, gentlemen, thank you both for being on today’s podcast. I wish you both luck and continue the great work. And thanks, Adam. Thanks for having

Unknown Speaker 36:49