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093 – Trust in the Workplace w/Christine Mahoney

Welcome back to the Listen First Podcast!

What happens when a journalist, trained to listen to people, takes a class on listening?

According to A Great Place to Work, a critical factor in building a positive and productive workplace culture is having trust among the staff.

But what builds trust in the workplace, and what does it mean for employees to experience? Trust can feel like a squishy word, even as it becomes increasingly recognized as an essential business asset. Telling them to trust you doesn’t work. You have to build a high-trust culture over time.

A Great Place to Work states that this is done by focusing on components such as – credibility, respect, fairness, inclusion, and belonging. They say that we must listen to our co-workers as much as we share information or request tasks from them.

For Christine Mahoney, a former journalist and college professor, building trust with her co-workers at the University of Colorado, Boulder, started quickly because, within her first few weeks on the job, she took the Our Community Listens course with fellow staff. The openness demonstrated in class built connection, and that has been beneficial in an environment that can be very fast-paced.

Christine is the Public Information Officer/Spokesperson and is fulfilled when she talks about CU Boulder’s fantastic men and women.

As a journalist of 12 years and someone who naturally loves listening to people share their stories, you might think Mahoney didn’t have much to learn when stepping into the OCL class. But as she tells her account, you’ll notice a difference between listening for content and connection…
0:00-2:55 – Introduction about trust in the workplace
3:00 – Conversation begins with Christine Mahoney
23:55 – Skill Snippet on Reflective Response

AI-generated dictation of the podcast audio

Please note that this transcription was completed using AI software.  Occasionally, the software inadvertently transcribes unanticipated grammatical, syntax, homophones, and other interpretive errors. Please excuse any errors that have escaped final proofreading.

Speaker 1 0:11
On the Listen First Podcast, you’ll join us as we connect with an array of fascinating guests from varying backgrounds and perspectives to explore how we can build and become leaders that transform their families, workplaces and communities. Tune in for insight on mastering skills like active listening, verbal and nonverbal communication, understanding behavioral tendencies and appreciating individuality.

Adam Salgat 0:47
Hello, and welcome to the listen first podcast. I’m your host, Adam Salgat. So what happens when a journalist who is trained to listen to people takes a class on how to listen? I’ll stay tuned to find out.

According to the website, a great place to work. A key factor in building positive and productive workplace culture is having trust among the staff. But what builds trust in the workplace? And what does it mean for employees to experience it, trust can always feel like a squishy word, even as it becomes increasingly recognized as an essential business asset. Being a leader and telling them to trust you doesn’t work, you have to build a high trust culture over time. A great place to work states that it is done by focusing on components such as credibility, respect, fairness, inclusion, and belonging. They say we must listen to our co workers as much as we share information or request tasks from them. For Christine Mahoney, a former journalist and college professor, building trust with her co workers at the University of Colorado Boulder started quickly, because within her first few weeks on the job, she took the our community lessons course, the openness demonstrated in class built connection. And that has been beneficial in an environment that can be very fast paced Christine’s title as the Public Information Officer and spokesperson. And when she gets the opportunity to talk about the fantastic men and women at CU Boulder, she is a static as a journalist of 12 years and someone who naturally loves listening to people share their stories, you might think Christine didn’t have much to learn when stepping into the lessons class. But as she tells her account, you’ll notice there’s a difference between listening for content and listening for connection. After our conversation, tune in for his skill snippet with one of the Chapman foundation facilitators.

Christine, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today.

Christine Mahoney 3:08
You are so welcome. Thanks for having me.

Adam Salgat 3:10
I’m excited to learn more about you to learn about your story and your history with the Chapman foundation. So let’s start at the very beginning. Tell me about your classroom experience. Because if I remember right, when you took the class, you were stepping in as a brand new employee getting to know your coworkers.

Christine Mahoney 3:26
Yes, I was a new employee, I think I was the newest COPD person in the class. And not only was I meeting all of my co workers and getting to know them, but I was also learning so much about the policing profession and community policing, and how we operate on our campus. So the class was incredibly valuable, because I really got to know people in a safe space. And they were sharing things about themselves and about, you know, how they operate and why they do what they do and what their communication style is. And working in policing. You know, it’s a profession where things are rapidly evolving and changing. And sometimes you’re in a stressful situation, and you need to know that they’ve got your back, and they need to know that, you know, I have their back. It was really great timing, just to get to know everybody, and to set the tone for how we can all work together.

Adam Salgat 4:26
I was gonna say almost like a crash course and getting to know your coworkers, right? I mean, it probably accelerated things pretty quickly.

Christine Mahoney 4:34
Yes. And I remember, you know, in the beginning of the class, we’re all kind of looking around going. Okay, the instructor said, this is a safe place that we can share, but are we really going to? And then, you know, kind of once the first person opened up to share some details of their life, then we all did, and it truly was that sort of a great space that we could do that.

Adam Salgat 4:55
I’m curious because with your journalism background, you’ve been trained to listen to the People and you’ve taught people how to listen to people. Tell me what it was like going through the our community lessons class, knowing that maybe you have some innate skills, and some learn skills already to listen.

Christine Mahoney 5:11
It’s some innate skills of being a good listener in a very specific way. And it also meant that I had some pretty bad habits to break. Because as a journalist, you’re trained to listen for sound bites, or bits and pieces of information that you can use. And you’re really keying in on those, almost to the exclusion of all else. So you might be missing some nuances. Or you might be missing the opportunity to really hear where the person is coming from and to reflect that back. So the class was very interesting, because, you know, I’ve always thought of myself as a good listener. But this taught me how to listen in a different way, you know, not to solve a problem not to use what the person was saying. But to allow the other person to feel heard and to feel seen and to feel understood. That was different. And I really appreciated that.

Adam Salgat 6:12
Awesome. Yeah, I guess I didn’t think about it from the journalism perspective that you’ve got a job to do. Right, right. You know, like, a little bit different than when we’re listening to someone, and maybe they just need us to listen, so they feel heard.

Christine Mahoney 6:26
Yes. And sometimes it’s hard to turn off that you’ve got a job to do part when you’re, it’s so engrained, and you’ve been doing it for so long. But I think that, you know, this was a great skill to learn, and I’m still practicing, I think I’ll be practicing for the rest of my life. But, you know, it was just a great, a great exposure to something new.

Adam Salgat 6:47
When you were in class, did you have any aha moments, you know, those moments where something just clicks and light bulb flips on,

Christine Mahoney 6:55
using the homework assignments, and going home and interacting with my husband and my son, and trying to listen in a different manner and use reflective listening and say, back, this is what I think I heard you say, and, you know, not immediately jump into problem solving mode, I got some strange looks from my family. Like, what are you doing, you’re not immediately offering solutions, you’re just sitting there and listening. So that was kind of an aha moment. Like, you know, they, I told him, I was going to be in the class, but I don’t think they really understood what it was all about until I started doing the homework. And then, honestly, it happened so quickly. But within a few days, my son was able to articulate to me, if he saw me jumping into problem solving mode, he could say, Mom, I just need you to listen right now. And he was brave and open to just like starting immediately to interact with me in a different way. And I thought that was pretty cool. And that was a big light bulb moment of, ah, this completely changes the dynamic of how I’m communicating with my family at home. So I would imagine this would translate to how I communicate with people at work. And sure enough,

Adam Salgat 8:14
it does. It does. Yeah, so we’re gonna, let’s keep down the work route. Because I do I do want to touch back on something you shared about your family and everything. But in the workspace, your police chief during jokers, she she has all of the class take the our community lessons course, how do you think that has helped the staff and officers at CU Boulder connect with the community? And why do you find that valuable?

Christine Mahoney 8:39
I think it’s great that Chief Joker’s has everybody, from commissioned officers to staff, take the class so that we all have the same base level of knowledge, because we all interact with our campus community. And it’s so important in community policing, that we are able to build trust with the community. And it’s a different environment than a municipal, you know, police agency in a city. This is a campus community of 10s of 1000s of young people coming in from all different walks of life locations around the world, and with different ideas of what the police do and who the police are. And so it’s really, really important that we’re able to listen and to help the community understand that we are receptive to feedback and that we do take to heart what people say to us and that we are able to, you know, pivot on certain things or make changes or, you know, maybe if it’s something that we can’t we are able to communicate why things are the way they are, but it just opens the door to this kind of more inclusive communication with the community that I think Everybody has appreciated and it has honestly led itself to start building relationships in so many different ways. You know, maybe not just sitting in meetings and listening, but understanding that some of our community members want to know more, and maybe they want to join us for ride alongs, maybe they want to, we had one officer start international student group cricket game, you know, maybe they want to interact with us, just on a human being level, not necessarily, you know, always in a formal meeting or some kind of situation like that. But you know, just to understand that we’re all people, and we all have something valuable to offer each other. And once we know how to hear that, which is what we learned in the class, it’s just so much easier to interact with everybody in a more positive way.

Adam Salgat 10:51
You mentioned a couple of things in there. And one of them is the visual that I have many times you see viral videos of officers potentially playing basketball, but I’ve never seen one playing cricket. So that would be kind of that would be kind of cool to interact there. And something in some of the notes you mentioned at the beginning, when you started talking was having similar skill sets, everybody being able, let’s say, all the same tools in the toolbox, right? Everybody’s working from the same base knowledge, how do you think that has had an impact on your workplace culture?

Christine Mahoney 11:25
Sure. And I just I’ll, I’ll backtrack one little bit. Yeah, it was, we have different levels of officers, residential service officers, and community safety officials. And it was actually one of our community safety officials who started engaging with the international students in the cricket matches, I’m not a cricket player. So I hope that we matches. Hopefully, I’m not mixing that up. But yeah, it was so fantastic. And I think that will just live on in perpetuity, and inspire different ways to engage. But to kind of answer your question, we do have to rely on each other during emergencies, during critical incidents, you know, in my role is in the communication realm of being able to communicate quickly and accurately during emergencies, as well as during the fun times and elevating, and, you know, celebrating our success and our training and making sure the community knows what we’re up to. But I think this class and the skills that we learned, really come in handy, when the chips are down. And you know, it’s the middle of the night, you’ve been woken up, you need to engage with somebody and really listen and hear what they are saying so that you can accurately convey that information to the public, whether it’s, you know, for public safety, or awareness. And so the, the trust that we developed in the class really helps, because then immediately, we all have the same skills where it’s leveled the playing field. And when you do get those critical calls, everybody knows, okay, this is somebody, I can tell them everything. And they’re going to understand, you know, what we need to do with this information. And we just have a level of trust, I think, and each other that simplifies the work in some ways, it makes it so we can operate as efficiently as possible.

Adam Salgat 13:26
You just said the word in there that I that I was hearing, like, right before you started, which was trust, right, you’re able to build trust between each other. And I suppose that helps with efficiency, like you just mentioned?

Christine Mahoney 13:40
Definitely, yes. When you know, that you can just start from go. And you don’t have to worry about, you know, well, what is this person going to do? Are they really understanding me? Are they hearing the information? You know, are they going to be using the information correctly? Yeah, we just have this base level of trust. And you can just start, and it’s just assumed that we’re going to, we’re going to be listening and hearing and acting appropriately.

Adam Salgat 14:09
Yep. And I would say that trust comes from being able to feel connected, right, being able to listen to each other when you need to. Mm hmm, definitely. So one of those opportunities, I think, came up recently because you shared with me that during a hectic time at the university, you and a colleague that took the course together found time to reminisce, told me a little bit about that conversation. And I’m curious, did you practice your listening skills and attending behavior on each other’s?

Christine Mahoney 14:37
I hope we did. Yeah, we do command posts for large events on the university. So if that would be anything from concerts, to football games, to other large things that we might be hosting where we have 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of people on our campus. So we had a large concert on campus recently. was actually a three day event. So we were in the command post with each hour for many, many hours for three or four days in a row. A classmate who had taken the art community listens class with, we were talking about how comfortable we are with each other. And you know, you’re sitting in, you’re basically on alert, you know, listening and watching and waiting, in case, at least in my case, in case emergency information needs to be communicated, whether it would be, you know, a critical incident or bad weather rolling in where we might have to do a shelter in place or something like that. So you’re, you’re kind of in a vigilant state, but we were just commenting, you know, how comfortable we were with each other, how relaxed we were, because we have this base level of trust in each other. And we feel comfortable if if I had a question about, okay, I’m seeing something here, or I’m hearing something from our social media listening community, there was no hesitation for me to bring that up. You know, it was just like, Okay, this is something I’m hearing, I know, I need to get this in front of someone, I’m never gonna worry that they’re gonna say, oh, that’s nothing like, Oh, thank you for bringing this up. To me. It’s really important that we’re all listening in our different ways and on different channels, and they were able to communicate. So we did kind of have a chuckle about, like, how comfortable we weren’t doing that, and how valuable the class was. And hopefully, in that chaotic environment, we were able to attend to each other. And really, listen, there’s so much going on, but I think we did I really do?

Adam Salgat 16:43
Well, it sounds like you enjoyed your time, I hope you got to listen to some of the music maybe in your, in your vigilant state to do that. And I’m glad that you’ve got classmates and people around you that you can talk about these communication skills, because I’m sure you probably found yourself thinking about them a little bit more often after, you know, going through chatting with someone almost like a refresher, I suppose.

Christine Mahoney 17:06
Yeah, definitely. And you know, as every organization, you know, there’s always new people coming in. And so we’re able to talk to them, like, oh, wait until you get to take this class, you know, this is what you’re going to learn or Oh, hey, you see how comfortable we are with each other. And we’re interacting in this way. That’s because, and then we can go in a little bit of background, and then, you know, circle back, we should do some sort of a class reunion, what we should do, we should plan something big and fun, where we can all get together and recap our skills.

Adam Salgat 17:41
That would be awesome. I can guarantee it. And I will wait for my invite and get on a plane to Colorado. You did mention family earlier. And in our pre conversation, you know, you shared with me that when you took the course your family was going through transitions at that time you were starting a new job, your son was going back to school after being away. What did you learn that helped your family through these changes? Yeah,

Christine Mahoney 18:06
it was a big transitional moment in all of our lives. Yeah, like you said, with me starting a new position, my husband waiting to start a new position after COVID impacts on public school where my son was, you know, basically learning from home for 18 months during high school, which is a really pivotal time of social development and feeling maybe a little anxious and curious and excited and everything to go back to that. I think that is where I found the most value in the Listening skills that I was able to develop and go practice at home is that, you know, there was a level of tension and anticipation from both my husband and my son, and I could listen to their concerns, and not necessarily jump right in and solve the problem, but just make them feel heard, and allow them to express themselves. Maybe previously, if I would have jumped right into problem solving mode, they wouldn’t have been able to fully express what they were feeling or thinking, because I was already on to the next step of like, okay, you feel this way, this is what we need to do. Right? Whereas, you know, after learning some of these skills, I could just make sure that they were heard. I could say, oh, I’m hearing this and instead of jumping in to say, is there anything that you need help with? Or what are you thinking might be the solution to this? And so that was just completely different way of interacting. And it can’t, it couldn’t have come at a more perfect time, honestly, in our lives. So it was just really serendipitous.

Adam Salgat 19:51
You mentioned a little bit that you think it might have helped with your son’s adulting skills. I’m guessing because maybe you weren’t solving the problem for him right?

Christine Mahoney 20:00
Yeah, and that’s really helpful now because you know, a couple of years have gone by almost a couple of years, and he’ll be going to college in the fall. And so that also was incredibly helpful, as he is now, you know, going through a process of, you know, trying to choose a roommate and trying to choose classes and trying to relate to an academic advisor and trying to establish all of these new relationships, and kind of having an understanding that, you know, everybody’s going through a transitional time, especially when you’re about to be a freshman in college, and having some empathy, having some compassion. And sometimes, I mean, I honestly feel that when you exhibit that it is reflected back to you, and then it improves the experience for everybody. So I think, you know, it’s just, it’s something I think we’ll help him, you know, through this next four years of college, and really, all the way through life, these adulting skills, you can never start too early. And I’m really glad that I was able to be a small part of providing that to him.

Adam Salgat 21:12
Awesome. It’s great to hear, and I hope he does well, wherever he ends up.

Christine Mahoney 21:16
Thank you. Thank you.

Adam Salgat 21:19
So Christina, as we wrap up today’s discussion, I always like to ask our guests for key takeaway, something that they can either encourage a listener to think about, or just something that stands out to them with their experience. I’ll open the floor up here, go for it.

Christine Mahoney 21:34
Yeah. Thanks. I mean, I think that so many of us compartmentalize our lives, where we think we’re one person at home, we’re a different person at work, you know, maybe we’re a different person with our friends, we’re a different person when we’re by ourselves. And in certain professions, I think that that inclination to come compartmentalize is even greater, especially in a stressful position, like policing, or any sort of emergency responder type of position or public safety position, you know, because you need to be vigilant and acting quickly and efficiently at work. And maybe it’s hard to go home and let that guard down, and be present at home with your family. But what this really brought home to me is that we can utilize the same listening skills in all of the different parts of our lives. And it integrated, the parts of me that I was, unconsciously or consciously separating out, like, I’m going to do this at work versus I’m doing this at home. And it kind of allowed me to integrate these different parts of myself, to show up the same in all of the relationships, whether it was a personal relationship, or, you know, going out with a friend or engaging with somebody in a stressful situation, or even fun situation at work or just being at home. So I really appreciated that. And I really appreciated you know, the fact that our chief was innovative and exploring options to help us be our best selves, at home, and at work that really hit home to me.

Adam Salgat 23:23
I had the pleasure of meeting cheap jokers when I was in Colorado. And you’re absolutely right. That was one of the things that she touched on was giving the opportunity for people to be their best selves, at work and at home. I’m so glad you mentioned that, Christina, I hope that you continue to integrate at home at work all of these listening skills and your relationships. And thank you so much for being a part of today’s conversation.

Christine Mahoney 23:49
Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it, and Go Buffs.

Adam Salgat 24:00
I’d like to welcome in Katy Trotter, She is the Senior Director of Content and coaching for the Chapman foundation. Katie, thank you so much for joining us to talk about reflective responses as our skill snippet today. Hi, Adam. Thanks

Unknown Speaker 24:13
for having me.

Adam Salgat 24:14
So Katie, set the table a little bit remind us what reflective responses

Speaker 4 24:20
are reflective response is one of the five reflective listening skills that we focus on in our our community listens class, and it really is helpful to think of it as being made up of two parts. When someone is coming to you with a problem or sharing a story with you. You are looking at what they’re sharing and trying to identify the facts and the feelings of what it is that they’re experiencing.

Adam Salgat 24:42
I would say that for many of us, when someone does come to us, and we start listening to them, we often jump right to giving advice. And I think that’s often because most people just want to help right?

Speaker 4 24:54
Yeah, for many of us, the idea of doing a reflective response is not a natural I’ll state that we ultimately fall into, I would say that maybe our motives for wanting to jump into that problem solving space can sometimes come from a different motive. Every once in a while, it’s because we really do want to help, we want to be seen as being helpful or experienced or an expert in a certain field. Sometimes we jump into offer advice, because we feel like we could get people through it faster, right? Sometimes it’s a pain and impatience thing. And then other times, it can even be because we want to have some control over the outcome. So I think about this, whether it’s with a employee that I have, or with my teenage daughter, sometimes I find myself wanting to offer advice, because I want to help shape how they move forward, how they see situations or how they choose to behave moving forward.

Adam Salgat 25:47
The second one, you mentioned in there helping someone get through there quicker not to share too much of a personal experience. But that is definitely something that happens often with me and my wife, because it takes her longer time to process than myself, for example. So I certainly know that there are times where I’m jumping in and giving, giving answers to questions she’s not asking. Yes. So how do we utilize this skill? Then what can we do when we’re finding ourselves? Maybe we’ve already started to give advice, or maybe we’re thinking about it ahead of time, maybe we’re being a little more proactive, meaning that when they sit down and talk to us, we’re, we’re ready to listen, how do we get ourselves in a space where we’re ready to build a proper reflective response?

Speaker 4 26:30
I really love Adam, how you mentioned getting yourself in the right space. Because for many of us who are hardwired to want to give advice in the moment, it’s going to take a lot of intentionality, especially at first. So for me, I often have to first focus on my attending behaviors, right, I need to make sure there are no distractions around me, because I have to be really intentional with holding whatever advice might be starting to creep up in my mind. So that’s putting my cell phone away and making sure that I’m turning straight towards whoever is talking with me, making intentional eye contact. And then there’s also that troublesome fact of all of the things that are happening in your mind as the other person is talking. Yep. And sometimes it can be helpful for us to think about our mind as a whiteboard. Yep,

Adam Salgat 27:15
I love this example. Yeah. And as our

Speaker 4 27:17
person is talking to us, or the person is talking to us, our whiteboard starts to fill up sometimes with distractions of other things that we’re thinking about. Sometimes it’s about oh, I want to remember to come back to this piece of advice that I have. And any time we start to catch ourselves filling up that whiteboard with any intention, other than just understanding and listening, we want to just wipe that whiteboard clear. And then use it to just be trying to capture in our mind, what are they thinking? And what are they feeling.

Adam Salgat 27:49
Such a good reminder, I also love the idea of wiping that whiteboard clear of anything else that might be outside of the conversation before the conversation really, truly starts. But I love your reminder of if you’re putting things up on that whiteboard that might not be beneficial to your reflective response. Well, don’t be afraid to wipe those off to, you know,

Speaker 4 28:12
add them, I think, too, when we talk about the things on your whiteboard, that might not be helpful, I think back to those initial examples of why we might have the motive to give advice in the first place. So anything that you’re filling up on the whiteboard, because you want to drive to a certain solution, or because you feel like your expertise is really important in that moment. Those are the things we want to wipe out. And instead, the items we keep are the ones that will help us to connect and empathize with the person who’s sharing with us.

Adam Salgat 28:41
So let’s say we refrain from immediately giving advice, we form a reflective response that connects with the person. What kind of benefits are we talking about maybe short term and long term of creating this type of practice,

Speaker 4 28:57
when we can consistently refrain from giving advice and instead use these reflective responses, I think it opens up a whole host of opportunities, both for our relationships and our organizations. And I think about it through this lens of First of all, you have an opportunity now to fully connect with a person, when people feel truly heard and understood, that goes have literally long way in building trust and rapport. So the opportunity for the relationship to be strengthened because a person feels truly understood, is incredibly beneficial. Also, if the person who’s sharing has a lot of emotion around the problem they have, we find that by listening it actually allows that emotion level to come a little bit back in balance so that they can access the logical part of their brain to start coming up with their own solution. So, Adam, you mentioned that long term impact when we create an environment where people get to start creating their own solutions. It goes a really long way in building up empowered people. It builds up empowered kids within our households and Our team members within our organizations, and it just continues to contribute into this culture where people feel very valued and cared for.

Adam Salgat 30:08
I love the idea of empowered kids. And for example, I know I spoke with a guest on our podcast we talked about their son is adulting. Now, he’s heading into first years of college. And she believes that taking the class has allowed her the opportunity to give him space to create his own solutions, because she listens to him differently than she did before. And I think that’s, that’s exactly what you’re talking about that potential empowerment. You also mentioned in there about being a leader and in our organizations, how it can make a difference, any examples that you could give us to expand on that? Oh, Adam,

Speaker 4 30:47
if I reflected back on all of the times in my earlier career, where I jumped in to give advice, instead of empowering employees, we could be here a very long time. But I will give you one example that came to me when I was going to the class and I had had an employee who came to me really upset because they were in charge of a project. And while they were in the middle of a meeting, they had a fellow team member who just kind of jumped in and started running the meeting. So the team member comes into my office and is venting and explaining how are they going to move forward? How are they going to come back from this whole example. And in my mind, there is great advice I can give about how to deliver a confrontation message, what they might want to send out to all of the people who were in the meeting to help level set who is responsible for what. And after taking the class, I realized that in that moment of reflective response could have looked like when your team member jumped in and started leading the meeting. It sounds like you really felt undermined. And then to pause, because that allows the team member to understand that I get where they’re coming from, or to correct me if that wasn’t the right feeling, which is completely fine. And then they get to start to identify how do they want to move forward. They’re the one who has the relationship with the team member, they’re the one who’s going to continue working with the group. And that’s twofold. That’s an immediate solution for them to be able to come up with their own and long term the next time they have an issue with a team member. They’re not in this learned helplessness state where they think I have to go to Katie to get her advice. Instead, they start realizing I know how to do this. I’ve done this before. And I can become more of a sounding board as opposed to this person who’s supposed to swoop in and save the day.

Adam Salgat 32:29
That is a wonderful, wonderful example. Yeah, and it again harkens back to me thinking about connection with my wife, no things could be a little bit different in the way that I respond. When she because she’s a share everything she she needs to be able to share it to get through it. Yeah. So I need to think more about how I’m responding to to all of those shares, I guess, be one way to put it.

Katie Trotter 32:56
That’s great. Adam and I heard someone say the other day that there are some people in the world who don’t know what they think and feel until they have a space to say it.

Adam Salgat 33:05
Yeah, that could be her. Yeah, it could be and I love that statement. I think that’s a really great statement to leave our listeners with. Katie, thank you so much for stepping through this skill snippet on reflective response. We look forward to more skill snippets from you in the future. Thank you, Adam.