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083 – Parenting without creating dependency

In this episode, Adam Salgat sits down with Gina Wilson, OCL Alumni, mother of two teens, and Assistant Professor of Educational Leadership at Central Michigan University. Gina discusses using the OCL skills as a parent during the first days of the pandemic. She recalls trying to work with her daughter on her daily routines and how she realized she was instilling learned helplessness in her. This development led to a deeper relationship with her daughter. Moments she once regarded as routine are now rich with connection and purpose.

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Adam Salgat 0:03
Do you remember the day you found the passion that fuels your life? Or maybe the first date you had with your partner? Or how about the day your child graduated college, there was love, joy and hopefulness of change. Over the years, many alumni have expressed that the our community listens course is life changing in a similar way. And we know it has been infectious for many something we know you can’t just keep to yourself. So take a chance to share that experience with those in your circle by telling them about upcoming classes. Even if they live outside of a regional learning hub, we now offer a virtual OCL course. When we all learn to listen, empathetically, we can be part of a caring community. Visit our website at Chapman or follow the link in the description of this podcast.

Introduction 1:04
Welcome to the listen first podcast brought to you by the Chapman foundation for caring communities. Our vision and mission is to strengthen relationships and build stronger communities through listening leadership, care and service to create a truly human connection. Learn and partner with us as we imagine a society in which people care about each other. And listen first.

Adam Salgat 1:32
Hello, and welcome to the listen first podcast. My name is Adam Salgat. With me today is Gina Wilson. Gina is an Assistant Professor of Educational Leadership at Central Michigan University. She is an alumni of our community lessons. And most recently, she taught her first our community listens course as a facilitator. Gina, welcome to the podcast.

Unknown Speaker 1:54
Thanks Anna. I’m so so glad to be here.

Adam Salgat 1:57
I am going to touch base a little bit about your experience as being a facilitator the first time you want to hear what it was like being on the other side. But our focus today is talking about you utilizing the skills as a parent. So tell me, do you remember about how long ago you went through the course?

Speaker 3 2:13
Yes, I went through the course and August of 2019. And my, I guess my driver to take the three day course. And dedicate that time to this curriculum was my professional capacity. At the time I was a principal, I thought it would be something I knew it was focused on relationship building. So I thought it would be something that would be very useful for my teachers and myself to lean into, to just create a better environment for our students.

Adam Salgat 2:41
So touch a little bit on that, because August 2019, then lead into pandemic beginning March 2020. How did that work for you guys? Especially once the pandemic started? Did you keep a lot of these skills in mind?

Speaker 3 2:55
Well, so yeah, everything I planned and intended, completely got derailed with the pandemic, because I originally had gone to it to be a principal in my principal role. In that time, I ended up getting my new position that I’ve been I hold that CMU. So that kind of went awry. While I was there, being trained as a participant, I just was really overwhelmed with just the concepts and the intentionality of the curriculum, the powerful nature of it around connection, and being your best self to in the relationships you have. And you know, honoring the fact that many of us have built intentional relationships yet, here’s an approach to make them even better, you know, knowing that that’s kind of like the gosh, the, you know, the the root of all of why we do what we do, right? And so, just saw so much opportunity, especially in schools, and now that I was transitioning to be a professor of aspiring school leaders, I was like, okay, I can still use this and immediately went into, I need, I need to be able to teach this like I need to be an expert in this curriculum specifically, went to St. Louis, where the facilitator is in March of 2020. arrived back home on the 10th. Okay, and then, bam, we’re all we’re all paused right, like pauses. Thankfully, the organization was very leaned into the fact that this group that had just gotten through a week of intense facilitator training, had created community amongst each other, and we’re excited and energized, are now in this limbo, right, and really leaned into trying to keep the what we had learned fresh and at the forefront through lots of opportunities for me, while having to have slowed down which I don’t slow down well, pretty fast paced person and being so in proximity physically to my nuclear family. That’s kind of where the transition from me viewing this as an exceptional strategy for schools and school leaders transitioned into, oh, my gosh, this is, you know, this is going to completely change how I, how I do, what I everything I do

Adam Salgat 5:20
everything that you do, I was going to ask that question because I was running through that timetable. In my mind, you just returned home, from St. Louis, in a facilitator training, an intensive piece to go through. And now you’re home with your family. You’re home with your family, through the pandemic, do you remember anything about maybe those first two to four weeks where the skills may have been really fresh on your mind and what it was, what it was like, what you might have been doing what you were trying to change and communication? I mean, there was a lot on our minds at that time. So I don’t know if these were high on the priority, but they might have been considering.

Speaker 3 5:55
Yeah, I’d have to say really quickly, because of the uncertainty out of the times that we were in that in the age of my kiddos. And because we are such social beings and my family like we are none of us are introverts. Like we go into settings and come out more energized after we’ve spent time with people, we’re just all very social, it’s kind of our capital, it’s our currency, we just enjoy enjoying, I mean, we’re the we’re the family that talks to people on the street, right, as if, you know, we’ve known them for years, that’s just the four of us. And so, we were just the four of us. And I knew that that was going to be different for us to not have that other human connection. And so I had kind of consciously said, whoo, you know, this is a great opportunity to really use the reflective listening practices, especially with my kiddos, right, who, who, you know, are in this critical complex space right now. But really at an age where they get what’s going on, they get how scary it is, they get what it takes to shut the world down. How serious this must be if the world is being shut down. Right. So I was just really tuned into reflective listening and you know, wanting to create space and time, and to not interject my fears, right, and my uncertainties on them. So really was like, I will use silence like committee, I will use silence, I will use you know, door openers, I’m going to use affirming, I will reflect back to them not wanting to, to impose my any internal highest fear that I may have had, right, because we all had our own kind of flavor, flavor of fear going on during the pant those first four weeks, right, we had our own experiences, and I wanted them to be able to have their own. So I was leaned into that, that I was like, Oh, this will be good, this will be good. You know, use this practice a same thing with my husband, you know, he really stepped up as a, as a protector as a provider. You know, we’re completely non traditional, typically, me and him are interchangeable. But in this realm, something pretty primal happened, that he was really in a mode of protector where I think most dads kind of went there. You know, I just think it was it was just natural for dads to feel like, let me get my chicks in the nest. And let me stand guard, you know, because again, everything felt so uncertain. So yeah, so I was just trying to be there for my peeps, more or less, in a really intentional way. And I knew that the new skills that I had just, you know, created some expertise around, this was my time to to use it right, and to really put it into the context.

Adam Salgat 8:19
So as time has gone on, in the last two years or so, and you’ve continued to use some of those skills. I guess one question would be is, did you notice an improvement in relationship? And I, I always ask that question. And maybe I need to find a different word, because improvement to me implies that there was potentially like a negative relationship with your husband or your kids. All I’m really asking is Did you notice anything change? Did you notice a change in the relationship? Where maybe you felt closer or you were connected a bit differently?

Speaker 3 8:49
Yeah. And Matt, for me, the way I describe it, because again, I would, I would like to believe that might have good relationships as a default trait. Yeah, absolutely. So what it was what it seemed to me, is that because I was changing, how I attended to them, right, and a more intentional direct present, right? Because we talked about presence and boys in the curriculum, like, we’re How are you present? You know, how does that match what you’re sharing with them? So I would say that the moment we’re more memorable, meaning I wasn’t an autopilot when I was in our routine moments, right? So whether it was so my daughter’s cognitively impaired, so I support her and a lot of her hygiene work hygiene, like in general just they daily care, and like homing, helping her comb her hair. That is that is something we do sometimes twice a day, she has this mean of gorgeous curly locks. So I tend to it like like a garden, making sure as the prepper oils do it. So there’s a lot of time we spend around her hair. And typically it’s a non moment right So what these practices allowed me to do was to again, center myself and I’m a, I’m a leader, in this moment, I’m in a space of connection. And so while we’re in this moment, I’m going to be president, right. And what I say is going to be, you know, intentional, and I’m not going to be thinking about 1000. Other things, I’m not going to be, you know, treating her as if she’s just a mannequin, like, I’m going to attend to this as a as an opportunity. So I think that’s what the skills really do. It takes us, us who make the choice to be different, who needed to make that deep behavioral change out of autopilot, to where we begin to identify those routine moments as unique opportunities. And as special, right. So that’s kind of what routine, especially in the pandemic, when we’re with each other, there’s no rush. That was the other beauty of the pandemic, there was no rushing. We weren’t trying to get off to school. So when I could go coat when I was combing her hair, it wasn’t, let’s just get this done. Let’s do the quickest hair as possible, because we need to get out the door. But it was, how do you want your hair done? What can I help you with? Oh, let me teach you how to do that braid. Right, it was very much so more just relaxed, which allowed me to really be intentional with the skills that I was doing. And I’m

Adam Salgat 11:23
sure that was good practice. And even as life has ramped back up in the last, definitely the last year for everyone, you’ve probably been able to fall back into good practices a little easier because of the practice early on.

Speaker 3 11:37
Oh, it’s completely reframed how I view mundane moments, like I am have a clear understanding that it’s the micro moments that matter. Gotcha. And I have 1000 of those a day with my kiddos.

Adam Salgat 11:50
That’s awesome. It’s great. It’s great to hear that you’re connecting with them in every moment that you possibly can. I have a question came to mind now is going away for later. But I think it’s a good space to bring it up now. Fast paced person, you called yourself a fast paced person. So is it hard for you to slow down in those micro moments? And do you have any tips for other people who would consider themselves fast paced

Speaker 3 12:13
it well, so I, I’m a doer. So and I’m very task oriented. So if you’ve gone through the through Lashley, on both, if you’ve gone through the wholesale trading, you know, and you’ve gotten your just letter, I am an i as my primary, but I’m also a C, which means I live a life of because I’m opposing in South and they’re both they’re kind of they’re kind of close. And so depending on what my motivation is, in that moment, I think it drives whether I’m in my seat tendency where I’m just trying to get an I’ll use the same example of my daughter’s hair, where I’m just trying to get it done. Or where I’m in my eye to where I see it as an opportunity for connection. So what I have tried to do and build the habit around is when I’m in direct, you know, moment. Regardless, I tried to be more perfect, right? Right. But yeah, just really honoring the fact that when I am one on one with any of my people, whether it’s my husband, my daughter, my son, that I’m there, right, right, because you can’t construct when it’s going to be this very important moment of conversation. Like kiddos don’t work like that, like families. Humans don’t work like that. Like we can’t be like, you know, and yeah, and sitcom TV, it’s like, you know, a very, very special episode of No, that’s not how life works like a Monday, we don’t get the notice on our calendar to say, you’re gonna have a very special episode of your life today. Like lean into it. Oh, they come out of nowhere. And if you’re on autopilot, sometimes you miss it.

Adam Salgat 13:53
It’s a very good reminder. It’s a very good reminder. Yeah, you and it’s hard to be alert all the time. But when you’re not, you might be missing out.

Speaker 3 14:01
Yeah, it’s that awareness that, you know, and for me, like one of the most meaningful opportunities I have daily is that, gosh, that car ride to school. That’s a little less chatty, because I have hazy, tired. preteens and teens in my car that aren’t really like apt to be chatty, but after school, you know, it’s just that using a you know, door opener, you know, tell me about your day as opposed to how of your day are going right into a very specific like, I feel about that test or, you know, very transactional kind of questions, you know, it’s just like shit or you know, I’ll say share one thing that made your day happy or you know, just really kind of guide them that way if they’re not giving me much but yeah, those are the those are the fun, the fun times and then really tempering me at my reaction to where if they say share something about what happened in the lunchroom, you know, that I don’t go right into mom mode to be like, You better not if it like if they cheer Have you ever had a bit of trouble? You can say, oh, that sounds interesting. Tell me more about that, right? Because you’re in the moment, and they can have an opportunity to share, you know exactly what happened. And you can learn about how they’re managing those, you know, peer pressure moments of like, all my friends are joining in on a full fight, do I join in? Do I walk away? You know, if I would, if I would immediately interject my expectation, I may never know that they’re already living my expectation.

Adam Salgat 15:28
That’s what I was gonna say, I think I’ve done that a little bit with my six year old even. And I’ve realized that yeah, she’s kind of living what I would hope to, at certain times, you know,

Speaker 3 15:37
yeah, and that’s, that’s the big, that’s it. Like, you can share as much words and wisdom as possible. But they’re putting it into practice and those those faces over and over again. And sometimes they’re going to do it by the book that you gave all the times, they’re going to test it a little bit different. And hopefully, you know, we’ll receive an app or may receive an actual consequence that affirms what you gave them in the first place. But if you don’t allow them that or even allow the creative space for them to share that with you, they’ll have no self reflection, you know, they will understand that you know, and won’t be able and you won’t be able to give them a, you know, an affirmation that they are making good choices outside of you being there to guide them directly.

Adam Salgat 16:15
Right, if you would, would you mind talking to us a little bit about your daughter some more you mentioned? She, she’s cognitively impaired. Do you mind sharing a little bit more about her?

Speaker 3 16:25
Yeah, so she is she has a rare disorder called Guillain Barre Syndrome. And Job Erickson numbers are pretty complex syndrome, which some some kiddos, you know, are wheelchair bound. And she is on the spectrum where it’s just an impairment. So she has a little bit physical impairments, but super, super capable, super, super able to do probably more than most. And so, yeah, with guidance, we really well, I’ll say, Okay, I’ve really worked to not limit her potential, but let her kind of guide us towards it when she’s ready. Right? It’s me and her, right. She’s, I’m like, it’s her and I all day long, all day long at different moments, you know, for our routines. And as she’s getting older, you know, we are working to have her build more independence and more agency and, you know, like we would with, with like we do with all our kids, it’s just around different things.

Adam Salgat 17:21
I was gonna ask, I grew up with a disability, physical disability, my parents, as all parents protected me, you know, but might have protected me a little bit more, because of my physical disability. It’s something I didn’t always pick up on. But as an adult, I started to a little bit, but I’m physically capable enough that I’m completely was able to grow out from underneath their wing, but I look back and I think, yeah, I think they probably protected me a little bit more than other parents, or gave me a little more leash or gave me a little more something when I needed it because of that. How’s that interaction with you and your daughter? Have you noticed? Any type of, uh, huh, higher level of protection, potentially, than what you might consider standard? I guess,

Speaker 3 18:06
I’ve always had to take her lead. I know her super well. And I’ve always known that when she’s in situations of frustration, right? Where maybe she needs a little more guidance through a frustrating task or something. You know, she, I know what that looks like for her for her. And so I’ll tend to maybe stay there a little bit longer. And I’ve never really called it protective, because we don’t necessarily shelter her from hard things, right? Because we really want to, like build her confidence around learning. But, but what, and this is another lesson I learned from the skill, what I realized is that I was inadvertently teaching her a different lesson in waiting for her, because she had learned something that I didn’t intend to teach her. So so in the pandemic, because we had so much time and because she was Miss with me now every day not going to school, and I was helping her with school. And I, thankfully had already been working from home. So my, my schedule didn’t shift too much, right. So I didn’t have I there was a lot of adaptability for my job. It was mostly just incorporating the kids into my schedule. I, I was like, Oh, good, she’s gonna be home, I’m gonna have her kind of shadow me, we’ll get some of the stuff done that I typically do that in summer, when my schedule shows down. We’ll get her some, you know, some real where she can model stuff. And we’ll, I’ll have time to really give her good time to learn, right and to build confidence in this. And so I think it was around her hair. And because again, she has this curly mane of hair. There’s lots of steps to it. So I think we’re working on her working on detangling it right for like, step. So So I was I said, you know, what, can I just tell her unless mommy’s just gonna help you with your hair. But I need you to start working on the fence. Right? You know, you’re getting old enough now you know you have your hands are getting stronger because she has some fine motor issues, right? We’ve got you the right tools. We’ve got everything now. So I need Just start like working, working. You’re not out for money, you know, but you don’t even like it when mommy does it. I always hurt, you know, you complain about it. So let’s, let’s empower you to do that. And as I explained it to her, and she said, um, she said, Well, I can’t do that. And I, like immediately added interjection to that statement and thought she was like being sassy. And was like, Well, I can’t do that, you know. And I, and so I like kind of, like, you know, puffed up and was like, oh, yeah, oh, yes, you can, you know, I thought you’re just being sassy. And she was like, no, no, I can’t like, I can’t do that. And so then I realized that she was trying to say, different kinds of camps. And so I was like, Wait a second, you know, can you clarify to clarify this for me? If any more information? Like do you mean? Like, you can’t, like you don’t know how, or you can’t, like you don’t believe in yourself? Or you could that was going to kind of lead me to what my next words to her were going to be? And she said, Well, I can’t because I won’t be able to, is what she said. She said, I won’t be able to. And I said well, why wouldn’t she be able to show that you’re, you know, a super capable girl like you’ve done this, I started pulling her data of, of competence out, right? And she was just like, Well, then why do you keep doing it for me? And I was like, she’s like, I thought you did it for me, because I couldn’t do it. Okay, so, exactly. I hear your pause. And that was kind of like my like, okay, yeah. So what I hadn’t realized, is that, in me, waiting for her, and maybe over waiting for her right? Or maybe even because I’ll give, maybe that’s a motivation for it. Maybe it was even a motivation around me just wanting to get it done. Right, busy life, right. i My healthfulness was communicating to her and I use helpfulness in quotes, was communicating to her that she was not able to do it. Because she’s doing a direct translation of us, right. She’s learning what we think she’s capable of based on what we allow her to try. And so the fact that I had never invited her to try was communicating to her that she had an inability to do. So that was a huge, like, eye opening experience. And kind of at the same time, I had read this quote, that helpfulness is the funny side of control, especially when it’s unsolicited help. So and, yeah, so when you’re being helpful without someone asking for help, you’re actually controlling that, you’re in a space of control, you’re there for you more than you’re there for them. And so I realized that there was quite a few spaces in my life, where I was very, very helpful. And, and I had even, like, seeing that behavior in my, in my son, and he, and it was all really around my daughter, we were all very helpful to her. But I think what it was doing was really making defending a message of, of incompetence that we truly didn’t hold for her. We, you know, we just didn’t want her to struggle. So we were all kind of, like, hyper leaned in, right. Whereas now and then I and then as I unpack that, I unpack the, the implications of her not believing in her, right. And so I was like, Oh, my goodness, like, yeah, of course, correct. If now, if so, it ended up so I kind of shared my reflection with my husband, and with my son, I apologize to my daughter about it. And, you know, kind of reframed how I view her and her abilities, right, and her capabilities and her strengths. And so then we i, so then it was kind of a new role in our home that whatever she wanted to try, like, I was always gonna give her an everyday opportunity to try. And I was going to ask if she needed help. before I did anything, so this was a really new role. So, you know, it was like, Do you need help with combing your hair today? And she’ll say, Well, I’m gonna try. But then you check it for me, okay. And I was like, okay, we can do that. Right. And so then it was, so then, once I gave once I removed myself from her business, okay, out of her life a little bit more, and really gave her ownership of her routines. You know, what she really? Yeah, she really, there was a change in her there was a shift in her. And there was a shift in our relationship because I didn’t view our interactions as transact as tasks anymore. Right? Right, because they weren’t guaranteed. Both moments were now based on what she felt she needed. So that that just really created a light death in the family. And I think she felt more just a part of it and more just like, you know, two hours now she makes a really big decisions for herself that I don’t think she even knew she cut. Right? So it’s completely changed the dynamic of her in the end This house,

Adam Salgat 25:01
thank you, first of all, for sharing that story. And being so open about it all, it definitely, kind of it says to me that, you know, these OCL skills helped you start to realize that, you know, we talked about it as taking the control of other people’s problems and in a lot of our work settings, but as parents we’re doing, we can do that, too. You know, if we’re not careful, we could create, you know, I think a term that you might have used in the past, I know, I heard Mickey Gibbs use it before as learned helplessness, right? And we’re, and as parents, we’re trying to not do that. It’s hard. It’s, I think it’s gonna be very hard for me, because as, as my kids are even getting older, and six and older, I’m trying to encourage them, but I feel like I also at the same time and doing doing things for them. So it’s like, it’s a balance, right?

Speaker 3 25:46
Yeah, I think our busy schedule really creates the environment of parents doing more for their kids, because it takes time for kiddos to do things on their own. Right, because even even the most proficient, kiddo, it’s slower, right? It’s, you know, there may be some more verbal guidance they need to need. So so in our fast paced world, where we’re all scheduled, you know, back to back to back, you know, so and our kids have just as busy schedule, as the adults have these days, it’s hard to create that space in place for them to learn, right. And so for us, the pandemic was a was an a wake up call and an opportunity to know that, in order for her to do and to live up to her potential, we needed to create time for her to be able to do that, right. And to feel that she could feel confident in her own skills and her abilities to do things, hard things, easy things, daily things, you know, and I think I think that’s not just the lesson with my daughter who’s cognitively impaired, because I know there was some area of my son was translating the same thing. It was at higher level, right? It was organization for his calendar, it was stuff that, you know, but it was still because I was so inserted in it, that he didn’t view he didn’t, it wasn’t detached from me, he couldn’t take ownership of it. Because it was right. You know, and sometimes those are the only moments were spending with our kiddos. So they don’t want to give them up. Right. Whereas if we created, if every moment was a moment of connection, then they, you know, then every moment with us, whether it’s doing something, you know, very wrote or routine, wouldn’t be viewed as, you know, their time with us. So, yeah, oh, yeah, well, they’re just big lessons on how, you know, when you view yourself as the leader of your home, just like you view it as a leader of your organization, you know, and really wanting to empower, you know, staff and employees to be those agents of change and leaders within an organization. You know, it’s no different. It’s not it’s not a different thought process was for kiddos, you know, in your home, and that that’s, that’s a form of caring for them to write, you know, is empowering them.

Adam Salgat 27:59
I know, you mentioned, when the pandemic first started, one of the biggest skills you tried to focus on was reflective listening, and maybe silence and just opportunity to let them express what might be going on in their heads and everything. As times gone on, obviously, that one would be a would be a great skill to continue to use. So if it is one of your favorite, you’re welcome to speak on it some more. But I’m curious, is that are there any other skills or another skill that comes to mind that you use, you’ve tried to use often with your children?

Speaker 3 28:30
Um, wow, a new one for me is because again, they’re getting older is the three choices when it comes to conflict. Because they, we allow them to have a voice, they can tell us when something we’ve done is upsetting to them. We’ve tried to create it tried to create open channels, so that they can, you know, there was a moment with my son where he was reconciling a decision. And I thought I was just leading him in a very generic way through a decision making process. And he called me to task for manipulating my words to where he was clear what decision I wanted him to make, which didn’t allow him to make the decision on his own. You know, and, and that was him bringing me a problem, right, if we’re looking at the effective confrontation, strategies, you know, he brought me a problem, and I had to choose in that moment, you know, whether I was going to agree to change for him, you know, and of course, I did, because that wasn’t what I you know, what my intended outcome was? I mean, because if, because it was false, right? It was a disconnect. So I was telling him, I wanted him to start making his own choices so he could understand consequences and, you know, become a great decision maker without my without my presence there without my voice there as he’s growing older, but yet, I wasn’t allowing him to do that, you know, through you know, what I didn’t even realize I was doing and he said, You should have just told me what you know what you want me to do? It was pretty much that it would have been more honest. Just tell me what you already feel like you repentance, where I’m actually have a, have a say in this, which, you know, so yeah, if I, you know agreeing to change so so again, trying to because not because people in my household don’t know, those health strategies like my son doesn’t know how to construct a, you know, a confrontation message or any constructive confrontation message, but sure enough with asking me to change my behavior, right. So even though, you know, I mean, I truly just try to use all of the concepts, as you know, as ever, the opportunities

Adam Salgat 30:32
arise as needed, right?

Speaker 3 30:36
For me to be more connected. So again, that one was he was, he was asking me to choose, you know, to change my behavior. And, and I was willing to do that. And so, and I have now given him permission to say, if I go back to about, I’m breaking a habit, I go back to it, please just do what you did before. And kindly tell me I’m doing it again. Right. And I know exactly what that means. And I’ll go back to what I agreed to write. And when I wanted in the first place,

Adam Salgat 30:58
I think that shows in my mind that you’re human, just like he is that he’s going to make mistakes, you’re gonna make mistakes, and that’s okay, we can talk about that we can, we can continue to strive to make a change and be better.

Speaker 3 31:10
Absolutely. And it’s all for their betterment, right, because if I, if I transparently, and very visibly, apologize for a choice that I made, that I thought was the best that maybe wasn’t best for them. And as I seek information from them, to make a better choice for next time, right, but also give the openness that that’s an iterative process, right? That we teach each other in relationships, as we change and grow. So that’s where I mean for me as a, for me, these are all sales skills are adaptable like that, if I learn and grow, the skills, and the techniques in understanding stay static, so at least I have some kind of permanent

Adam Salgat 31:55
foundation as the what I’m hearing as foundation, right? You’ve got these building blocks of foundation that you can stand on the exterior of the house, you know, the siding may change as time goes on, but the foundation is the same?

Speaker 3 32:08
Absolutely, absolutely. So this and that, yeah. And so then I become more reliable, as a person who’s in relationship with others, right? Because I can change, you know, viewpoints can change perspectives can change whatever, I can learn and grow, but by strategies on how I approach our relationship remains safe and consistent.

Adam Salgat 32:27
So as we wrap up our conversation today, Gina, I always like to ask our guests to give me a key takeaway. So give, to provide our listeners with something to think about maybe a practice that you want to encourage them to, to go towards or, or maybe just something to keep in mind next time they’re communicating with family communicating with kids,

Speaker 3 32:45
I would just say I think where this kind of trajectory all started was around presence and voice and understanding that in your home and in your buildings, if on the in the micro moments that are seemingly unimportant, and just passing you really intentionally create presence, right, in those moments, and really do the communication cycle and reflective, especially the reflective listening skills, the attention, right, you can be intentional attention. That is a great starting point, which then opens up opportunities and possible opportunities to resolve right and correct into into go deeper. So and those are easy, because we you know, it’s it’s still there. I mean, micro moments happen all the time. But really viewing reframing those as as key moments, and not just, you know, as nanoseconds of, you know, opportunities. They’re, they’re really, they’re really key moments that built up when done intentionally they, they’re the ones that construct the relationship.

Adam Salgat 33:51
So moving them from potential, insignificant to significant opportunities.

Speaker 3 33:57
Yeah, thank you for reframing that. Yeah. But that’s what it is. Because they’re they’re the significant ones that create those those deep filled relationships.

Adam Salgat 34:04
Awesome. Well, Gina, if there’s anything else you’d like to add, I’ll give you the opportunity.

Unknown Speaker 34:10
I think I think I said,

Adam Salgat 34:13
Yes, you have shared and you’ve been very open, and I’m very thankful for that. Congratulations on your step towards finally becoming a facilitator. You did complete your first class last week. Congratulations. It did. Thank you. And hopefully, we’ll have you back on maybe through another lens some time because I know you’re multifaceted.

Speaker 3 34:33
Absolutely. Yeah, this this was my favorite lens. So thanks for giving me time.

Adam Salgat 34:38
It is mine too. It’s where the skills consistently come into play for me that I’m always trying to be better for those that are most important. Thank you. Thanks.