Marsha Burns – Our Community Listens Director of Curriculum Quality and Content Development – has over 30 years of experience teaching and servicing Fortune 500 companies in building and delivering leadership training.
Through the first 26 minutes of this podcast, Adam J. Salgat, Sarah Weisbarth, and Marsha discuss how her passion for people led her to Barry Wehmiller and eventually Our Community Listens. They detail the concept that “everyone is a leader” and what that looks like at work and home.
Marsha also shares stories of leaders who inspired her and how she sees a correlation between listening and leadership. And lastly, they explore what is the meaning behind truly human leadership and why she believes listening is the number one skill.
In the last 10 minutes of the podcast, learn about Marsha’s life outside of work, including her love for her quiet pets, Halloween, and two grandchildren.
AI-generated dictation of the podcast audio
Please note that this transcription was completed using AI software. Occasionally, unanticipated grammatical, syntax, homophones, and other interpretive errors are inadvertently transcribed by the software. Please excuse any errors that have escaped final proofreading.
Adam Salgat:
Hello and welcome to the Our Community Listens podcast. My name is Adam salgat. And with me today is Sarah Weisbarth, leader of Alumni Engagement and Marsha Burns Director of Curriculum Quality and Content Development for Our Community Listens. Thank you ladies for joining us today. Marsha, this is your first time on the podcast and welcome. I’d like to learn a little bit more about you and how you journeyed to Our Community Listens. So why don’t you fill us in?
Marsha Burns:
Okay. Sounds good. My background is in training organizational development, which means I’ve spent most of my life working with [inaudible 00:00:53] to get higher performance [inaudible 00:00:56]. It’s interesting as if you could get performance any other way, but I think that’s just how we talk about it. And I’ve designed training [inaudible 00:01:06] and communication plans and measurement systems all designed to help folks understand what they’re supposed to do and measure them doing it.
Worked with a lot of Fortune 500 companies and then built a corporate university for a global architecture firm because it felt like why not do this for one organization, really help them meet their vision? What’s interesting is I spent a lot of time working with leadership who were more interested in the numbers than in the people. And my heart’s always been with the people. I’m a teacher at my heart and I ran across Bob Chapman’s information when I was actually researching some assignments cynics early work and decided, here’s a guy, here’s a leader who actually believes the things I believe.
And so I ended up joining Barry-Wehmiller, which is Bob Chapman’s organization to equip people, to actually see others as people. Which sounds funny. But I think in the world we live in, we often miss that the thing in front of us is a human being just like us. And I found that through working at Barry-Wehmiller teaching the course communication skills training, and working on perhaps even improving it, using those skills made my relationships better. Me who thought I knew all this stuff realize that there were a lot of skills I wasn’t using to really care for my family, care for the people at work.
And so moving into the Our Community Listens group, who focuses not only on business people, but on folks from all walks of life, including first responders, including teachers. I was just here in Phillips, Wisconsin yesterday at a workshop for teachers. People who give so much and we can give back to them. So I came here to be part of the mission to make a better world. I’m looking forward to working with Sarah and others at Our Community, Listens to see what is possible.
Adam Salgat:
I want to talk a little bit about your evolution. You mentioned it in there. Working for companies that kind of looked at just the stats and forgot about the humans. Tell me a little bit about how that changed for you in the last 10 years.
Marsha Burns:
I worked with AT&T in the early nineties, when they were pretending to focus on the customer by the way they set up their organization and structured themselves state to state. You may remember there was a Michigan bell at one point, there was Illinois bell at one point.
Adam Salgat:
Yep. My mother worked for them for many years.
Marsha Burns:
There you go. There you go. And really in many ways, really terrific benefits tended to be a stable company sort of. But what I saw this in the work as they’ve laid people off, because they were really structuring to be smaller, tighter, and frankly make more money with fewer people because of technology and other opportunities. It broke my heart to see people who had worked there 20 or 30 years, marched out the door with a box. And I just thought, if someone has given you 20 years of their life, it seems like there could be a better way to do that. And I’m not criticizing them. I’m just explaining that at that time, in that space, that’s what companies did. People were sort of like branches of a tree that you lopped off if you had too many and not recognizing that there were lives and families behind that and work there and other places where folks actually felt it was okay to maybe bend the truth with customers and even shareholders in order to achieve it and really went against my values.
And I was fortunate enough to be in a position to say, where else can I pour my life? Where else can I spend my life? So that’s really the expertise to move from if you will, business in the industrial world to a professional organization, architecture firm, which had locations globally, or practices as they described them. And these were people who did care about the environment and it’s an apprentice master sort of situation often. It takes a long time to learn to design a building.
And the folks I worked for there, I really had a wonderful leader who believed in responsible profit, not maximum profit. And again, I’ve always been compelled by the leadership as to where I work and what I joined. And so as that leader retired and new leadership took on the organization and our values, and in saying again, it’s more about profits and people, then I just needed to see if there was another place that I could help make lives better for people. I think, again, I’m a teacher at my heart and I think that’s just kind of important to me.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Marsha, you have extensive experience in the corporate world, and I’m just listening to you. You can hear the shift from profit to people. And I think we’re experiencing that throughout business, throughout nonprofits, throughout our communities. What do you think is driving that now? Because, it’s definitely different.
Marsha Burns:
It is definitely different. I think maybe, hopefully we’re coming to recognize that some of the brokenness and violence and cruelty that we perpetrate on each other is because we’ve lost a sense of value for the people around us versus how can I climb on top of your head and get something more than you have? I think businesses are recognizing too that they have a responsibility as citizens of the world to take better care of the planet, to in many ways, recognize the value of people. Now I’m going to be really, as you said, I’ve got a lot of background in business. So I understand what drives the behavior. And often it is what’s going to work and that’s okay. It’s not a bad thing. The labor pool, you folks who are millennials, there aren’t as many of you, my generation is retiring.
The pool right now of people available for work is really a shallow puddle. And I hear folks all the time talk about how hard it is to find people. You see franchises like Steak ‘n Shake in St. Louis, which is a fast food place. They can’t get people to work. So I think some of the [inaudible 00:08:45], frankly is pretty pragmatic. And it’s, if we don’t treat people better, if we don’t get this better, they won’t work here. They will leave. I mean, there were lots of us, baby boomers. So, there wasn’t that same kind of pressure people were competing for jobs. So I think that drives part of it too. It’s not all because we have great hearts and I’m sure everybody does have a great heart. It’s simply a pretty practical issue at this point.
Sarah Weisbarth:
So it’s almost like the demand is happening because of the situation and in the work environment and the people that are saying it needs to be different.
Marsha Burns:
Yeah. I think that’s a big driver. At the same time, it’s the right thing to do. It feels right to do. So, it’s kind of a win-win.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah. Do you think it’s driven by leadership or do you think it’s kind of driven from within? We have this premise that everyone is a leader. Tell us more about that.
Marsha Burns:
Well, first I’ll answer the first thought. It from my viewpoint. I think it’s always about leadership. It’s whether you fail or succeed or have a good day or bad day, it’s always about leadership. Because leaders create the environment that you swim in, that you work in. And this idea that everybody is a leader, a lot of folks have a problem with that. They want to say, “Nope, leaders are leaders and there’re followers, and they’re not leaders.”
Everybody’s a leader for me. It suggests that, you know what, in a moment in a meeting and in an idea generation session, I might be the guy with the idea. I might not lead the team. I might not lead the organization, but I could lead with my strength with my gifts, with my talent. So part of my responsibility is to step into that. To have the courage for that, for my organization, to give me the space and the encouragement to have the courage for that.
I mean, if folks say, well, that means that everybody leads your own life, which is true. That is true. That I’m responsible for me. And I know that the only person I can manage in this world is me. But at the same time, I also think that every person has a spark and its specialness that we need to cherish, nourish and grow. And that is what we mean, what I mean, when I say everybody’s a leader. Everybody can lead in a moment and everybody’s needed in that moment to be who they are.
Adam Salgat:
That scenario that you brought up about being in a meeting and someone having an idea and having that leadership within them to be able to say their idea to express it. That brings us to a question that I had in mind about how do you see listening and leadership being co-related? Because in that meeting with the leader, quote, unquote, hierarchy of leader standing at the front of the table let’s say, they need to be able to listen to that idea. Is that correct?
Marsha Burns:
Yeah. I love the way you draw that picture, leaders standing at the… Because that’s usually how it happens, right. Standing at the end of the table, or they’re somewhere in a position that feels like authority. Yeah. I mean, totally. The idea is the best leaders I’ve ever had shut up and let people in the room have the idea, let others influence. Who listens to their leaders. And by doing that, their leaders allowed them then to speak into maybe mistakes they were about to make.
So I think leadership, listening is the heart and soul of a good leader. I had a CEO at the architecture firm, actually brilliant at math. I mean, knocked down, brilliant, wicked smart, but [inaudible 00:12:54]. And any meetings that he had, he spoke last. There was an idea, an issue, a challenge on the table, everybody spoke before he spoke and he listened and heard every idea.
Now, did he come into the meeting with an answer, with a solution, with a plan in his own head? Of course he did, but he knew if he did that, right, if he expressed that it would shut down everybody else in the room. And that’s how he grew people. I mean, he hired people when there was no job because he saw talent and gave them places and opportunities to bring those gifts. So listening, real listening, where you’re not just waiting to talk, is everything in leadership. I mean, we’re not in a battlefield where we have to go, take that Hill. Our leadership needs to be collaborative. It needs to be respectful. And you can’t do that if you’re not listening.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Just listening to you. I’m also picturing that it’s not just listening in the boardroom, that it’s not just listening in a meeting that it’s listening to people and what’s going on with them. People are caring so much these days and they probably always have been, but before it was, leave your home life at home and, work life is at work. I just feel like from a leadership standpoint, the way we care about our people is changing too.
Marsha Burns:
Yeah. I love the way you put that. I think its so right. And for some folks it’s challenging. It’s challenging for them to not make that big divide. But the best leaders lead people as humans, not as just the guy who does the accounting. So it needs to be more than that. And when you, as a leader, listen, understand, see a person as a mom, a dad, a brother, a son, they will bring you more than you ever thought possible. But when you only see them as the guy who does the accounting sheet once a month, they will do the accounting sheet once a month. And it will look exactly the same month after month. So from a just a strictly work perspective, it’s good business. And from a human perspective, it makes work so much more enjoyable, fulfilling all that stuff.
But it’s a bit of a leap for many people, especially traditional leaders who just want to get stuff done. And this feels like it slows them down. But, even Steve Jobs used to say, let’s fail first to succeed sooner, perhaps. And we do need to, if we want that sort of environment [inaudible 00:16:06] working environment where I’m a person, know that I’m a grandmother and that I’m not [inaudible 00:16:13] about my grandchildren. I love to work in an environment like that, where I’m not just bringing the goods every second of every day. And I think those make again for a better workplace and better, better things.
And you said something interesting. Maybe it’s always been as stressful. I don’t think it’s been as stressful. I think the technology and the speed and that all the applications that are new and new and more and different. And plus you got to be the best mother in the world. And plus you got to have the best house and the best this and the best that. I think the pressure is so enormous now. And you see it in the lives of young people where they’re taking their own lives for having [inaudible 00:16:59]. I have to believe some of that is just the pressure of the expectations that we put on each other. And it wasn’t always like that. And I think it’s just ramping up as the world goes faster and faster. So the need for listening, the need for human connection is greater than it’s ever been before. My opinion.
Adam Salgat:
I would agree with you on that. Absolutely. You mentioned in the beginning that at your heart, you’re a teacher and you also mentioned just moment ago about bringing the goods. So I’m going to ask the teacher to bring the goods. Can you give us a tip or two, and what are just a simple things that you’ve seen organizations do to take small steps to recognizing their employees as humans and trying to break down some of those walls.
Marsha Burns:
As for me, again, I just share experiences for leaders, for people at work, get out of the office, get your head out of a computer, take the earbuds off, ask people how they’re doing. Notice, I can literally go and get water at work and someone is there. And if I say you seem busy, they often will just launch into the challenges, all the frustrations that they’re dealing with. And it shocks me every time. But you just listen and you find that later they come back and say, “Thanks for listening. I just kind of needed to vent. I just needed to do that.” So I think, first it’s just getting out of your own head and your own space and let’s recognize what community at work or community at home at the grocery store or whatever, and put the damn phone down.
Adam Salgat:
That’s the truth. I try to do that as much as possible when I get home. Because sometimes I’m like, “What am I doing? My kids over here asking me to play with them and I’m on my phone for what?” So you’re absolutely right. Sometimes we have to choose, make a choice, put it away, express an interest.
Marsha Burns:
Yeah. I love the way to say that. Just put it away, put it down the world’s going to keep turning.
Adam Salgat:
Absolutely.
Sarah Weisbarth:
So I feel like a lot of what we’ve been talking about is how do we engage with others? How do we connect with them? How do we see people as human and treat them as humans? And Barry-Wehmiller and Bob Chapman has really just motivated and moved forward this truly human leadership movement. Our Community Listens as an extension of that. As we have the opportunity to serve outside of a corporate environment, we serve small business and nonprofits and municipalities, Marsha, can you help us contextualize understand more of the truly human leadership movement and maybe how Our Community Listens can help serve that?
Marsha Burns:
Yeah, I hope so. I don’t have all the answers but I can only share from my viewpoint, how I see it. I think people get confused and they think it’s Santa Claus, walking around, hugging everybody and patting on the head and bringing gifts. And it really isn’t at all. It’s not about the choices that you have to make, whether it’s in business and first response. Police who are accused of brutalizing folks and perhaps from their training, that’s the right thing in the moment. Truly human leadership is not about the choices you have to make. It’s about how you enact them.
So back to that AT&T thing, 20 years on the job, really we do, we may have to make a decision that your job isn’t here anymore. But the way we do that is either truly human or truly inhuman. And nobody knew there was a choice 20, 30 years ago. Now we finally get back to the idea that there’s a choice. I can treat you with respect. I can push in the fall as much as possible. I can take the resources of the organization. I can take the resources of that police department and in any way possible, not see you as this monster, but see you as a person whose behavior’s an expression of a need.
Truly human leadership is about how I do leadership. Do I listen or do I force, do I understand and achieve goals through the gifts and talents that I currently might be stifling? Or do I just keep stifling them because I know best? So for me, truly human leadership has the opportunity to change dads and moms and even the way kids treat each other. Because again, it’s not about do I need to get my bike back from you because you borrowed it and you will bring it home.
But how do I do that [inaudible 00:22:10] about that? It doesn’t change the fact that their needs have to be fulfilled. It’s just how we do it. And that’s a choice and we can choose to do it the way we would want others to do it to us, or we can get a big stick and start beating people. And we get a big stick with words, we get a big stick with our authority, with our position. And all we do is create more harm, more hurt people. So for me, truly human leadership is the heart of what we’re talking about and listening is the number one skill.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah. So this just moves beyond a company, beyond a work environment. This moves into families and home life and communities.
Marsha Burns:
Absolutely, absolutely. It’s a way of being, it’s not whether you are still as dad saying, “No, you can’t eat candy before dinner.” It’s just the way you handle that situation.
Sarah Weisbarth:
I am personally just feeling blessed to be part of an organization that stemmed from a large corporation that saw a better way to do it, and then saw the impact of that on their employees, on their environment, and then how that could also impact at home and then initiated the opportunity for Our Community Listens to serve into communities with that same training, those same skills that were changing, the way leadership was done in Barry-Wehmiller. I’m just so grateful, right?
Marsha Burns:
Yeah. I feel the same way. As we’ve discussed my journey, you can imagine that every day I feel so grateful if there’s anyone who not only cares about this, but is willing to bring it to all of the world, not just their business for their purposes, but outside through Our Community Listens, and to get to work with people like you and Adam. I mean, I wake up every morning going, “Really how’d this happen?” So, to feel like our lives are going to maybe make a difference for other guys is really both exciting and humbling.
Adam Salgat:
Marsha, thanks so much for the compliment I had just met you. We’ve been talking to [inaudible 00:24:31] but I feel the same way.
Marsha Burns:
Awesome, we’re a team.
Adam Salgat:
Is there anything else you would like to share with our listeners today?
Marsha Burns:
Just, see the goods, take a minute, take a breath when you want to be angry, when you want to explode, take a breath and think about the fact that all behavior is an expression of a need and that person that’s irritating you, [inaudible 00:24:57] going on for them too. There’s a need that they have. And maybe if you just stop and listen to them rather than get into a [inaudible 00:25:08] with them. It could really change your whole day. So that’s all I would say. Just take a breath.
Adam Salgat:
Sarah, what about you? Anything else you’d like to add to our conversation today about leadership?
Sarah Weisbarth:
I would say my pause there just a moment ago about being just so grateful to be part of this movement is just really driving my heart right now. And as I reflect on the conversation that we’ve been having, just some of the key takeaways that I have are, that truly human leadership isn’t necessarily about getting the job done, it’s how you get the job done and how you value the people in your span of care as part of that process. And it’s so beyond work, it’s really about how are we connecting with others and treating people as humans in every aspect. So I think that would be my summary of our conversation today with Marsha.
Adam Salgat:
Marsha. Thank you so much for joining us. I hope you enjoyed our conversation today.
Marsha Burns:
Very much, very much. Guys you’re amazing. Just thank you for doing this work. And looking to give others the opportunity to join us.
Adam Salgat:
One of the first questions I like to ask people to kind of get to know them is, outside of the office, when you head home, how do you recharge? Maybe you spend time with friends, spend time with family. Maybe you just veg out and watch The Bachelor at… Whatever it is that you’re interested in. I’m kind of curious to learn a little bit more about you in that way.
Marsha Burns:
That’s so funny. Well, you should know first that I’m an introvert. So after being at work all day and interacting with people all day, I come home, go outside on the deck when it’s a nice day with a book and I love to read, I love stories. And being with my animals, we have a dog and a cat. So social time with them is so great because they don’t talk. And often I read a lot of C.S. Lewis because I just find him so inspiring. And that’s my recharge it’s very boring, but that’s just me. I also enjoy cooking and baking. I watch The Great British Baking Show and try to duplicate their efforts. Right now I’m working on Croissant. I make Croissant. So those are kind of interests.
Adam Salgat:
A fluffy croissant comes down to butter or shortening of some kind and fluffy [crosstalk 00:28:07].
Marsha Burns:
Butter baby.
Adam Salgat:
Its butter?
Marsha Burns:
Butter. Its got to be butter.
Adam Salgat:
Do you have a family tradition when it comes to cooking or a family recipe that’s been passed down through the years or anything like that?
Marsha Burns:
Well, we have a couple of favorites. I mean, one of our favorites meals is… Again St. Louis, there are a lot of Italian influences, so my husband will grill Italian sausage and I make a homemade sauce with tomatoes and Bazell and onion and garlic and just all the good stuff. If I make that over pasta, I have three boys. They’re all grown of course but it seems like somehow they know we’re making that dish and they show up. John complaints that he doesn’t get enough.
Adam Salgat:
They can just smell it wafting through the streets of St Louis.
Marsha Burns:
I think they smell. Oh gosh. Crazy. [crosstalk 00:29:12].
Adam Salgat:
Well you may need to send me that recipe.
Marsha Burns:
Yeah, we’ll be happy to.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah. Because I opened up a jar Prego this week. So not exactly-
Marsha Burns:
Nothing wrong with that. But this is better. I will tell you, this is better. You [inaudible 00:29:26].
Sarah Weisbarth:
You mentioned grandkids in our conversation. Tell me about them a little bit.
Marsha Burns:
A little bit? Please. Yeah. I have a grandson and granddaughter and they just… Granddaughter turns seven [inaudible 00:29:43], and my grandson turns 10 in two weeks, and they are the most brilliant, fun, happy children on the planet. They live in San Francisco, which is a heartbreak, but we go out as much as we can. It’s really cool out there, Adam, you may have been out there before, but they live near Berkeley. And what’s neat, is the kids walk to school like I did every day walk home from school and the teachers are cool. My daughter-in-law stays home. So she bakes and does signs for all the different things they have at school. And my granddaughter is a ballet dancer and basically a maniac and grandson is the lacrosse player who wants to be a paleontologist.
Adam Salgat:
Yeah. We hear that profession too often amongst young ones.
Marsha Burns:
You do not, not among nine year olds.
Adam Salgat:
Yeah. That’s Super cool.
Marsha Burns:
And it’s very fun.
Adam Salgat:
How would he dress up as a paleontologist for Halloween?
Marsha Burns:
Indiana Jones or any of those guys from Jurassic Park.
Adam Salgat:
Oh, that’s a good point. Is Halloween one of their favorite holidays?
Marsha Burns:
Absolutely. Because in St. Louis, we do it big and we decorate and we have scary things. So when you step on the mat, it screams and goes, boom. And we always have a big fire pit, although in California, be careful because of fire dangers. But yeah, so we brought that to California and the first year people were like freaking out because there’s fake owl up on a fence that when you came by, it goes, woo hoo, [inaudible 00:31:36] red eyes and the kids, I think they love the party of it, the fun of it more than they love even the candy. So yeah, Halloween’s huge. We go out there every year for Halloween and they wear the costumes to school and the Cal Berkeley Band comes and plays as the kids feel march around the playground.
Adam Salgat:
That sounds pretty awesome.
Marsha Burns:
Isn’t that awesome?
Adam Salgat:
Yeah.
Marsha Burns:
But we don’t have that in St. Louis.
Adam Salgat:
Nope. I don’t have that quite here in Michigan either, but my little one, she’s a three-year-old and she loves spooky things. She loves Halloween. I’d have to talk my wife into taking some time off of work, but maybe we fly out and watch the Berkeley Band. That sounds pretty entertaining.
Marsha Burns:
I think you should it’s really fun. Does your daughter like princesses?
Adam Salgat:
Yes, absolutely.
Marsha Burns:
Is she into princesses? Okay. It’s good to know. What is she going to be for Halloween? It’s pretty early yet [inaudible 00:00:32:37].
Adam Salgat:
Oh, no she’s been talking about it. Through the summer here we happened to let her watch some of the movie, the Corpse Bride, which is an animated Claymation kind of movie. And she’s basically been telling us, “I want to be Corpse Bride for Halloween.” We’re like, “Okay, we’ll figure it out.”
Marsha Burns:
That’s great. Oh, [inaudible 00:33:04] am very jealous.
Adam Salgat:
Got it. Favorite place to go get a meal in St. Louis?
Marsha Burns:
The Hill, which is the Italian district and there a restaurant there, Cunetto it’s has been there for a million years. My husband knows the family that owns it. So, that’s our favorite place. We do birthdays there and anniversaries there and any kind of special occasion, we go down to Cunetto get spaghetti meatballs.
Adam Salgat:
And we touched on this a little bit because you talked about your excitement of working for Our Community Listens and Barry-Wehmiller. But when you wake up in the morning and you open your eyes and you think, Okay, I need to get X, Y, and Z done.” What motivates you to do those things? What really gets you excited about the day?
Marsha Burns:
Well, I’m a workaholic. So you got to understand that first. And it drives me crazy to not finish whatever I was doing the day before, since I started with Our Community Listens, I’ve been kind of overwhelmed with, so-and-so wants this and somebody wants this. And somebody wants that. I have a deep desire to serve a higher purpose and to do good work and get it done. So what motivates me is the fact that I’ve got so much to do and Sarah is going to be yelling at me. If I don’t get some of this stuff done. I just go, “Oh gee, can I stay out of a meeting today?”
Adam Salgat:
Yep. Sometimes you just need to schedule a workday, right? I’m sure throughout your career, you have done that.
Marsha Burns:
It’s such a good idea. Last week, everybody stayed home from home, except me. It was just one of those serendipitous things. And I’m like, “Okay, I got so much done. I need like three more of those.” So maybe I should just block off the calendar pretend am traveling and then actually go to the office.
Sarah Weisbarth:
I just want to give a commentary about Marsha as a leader. In my current position and role Marsha is my direct leader. And I would say that as a whole leadership with Our Community Listens has evolved into living out the values and living out the vision of truly human leadership. And it is so empowering to have a leader that knows gifts and talents of individuals and can just release them into that. So when she says that Sarah is going to be on her about getting some of these things done, it’s because of the empowerment and kind of taking the… Marsha always says, taking the dog chain off, taking the leash off and let’s go. And we’ve been ready for Marsha to join our organization because we’ve been on, let’s go. And she’s going to move us into that future.
Marsha Burns:
That’s very kind, but hey we’re a team. And thank heaven, you’ve got that, if we go, let’s meet this by Thursday, you got it. I can do that. Everybody wanders around too much.
Adam Salgat:
Well, it’s good to get a little, fire poker in their butt and get them moving.
Marsha Burns:
Every now and then.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Not every day.
Adam Salgat:
Just every now and then. Marsha, thanks so much for letting me get to know you today on the personal side. Love hearing about your grandkids and everything that happens at Halloween or on San Fran.
Marsha Burns:
Thank you Adam. It’s been a pleasure.
Adam Salgat:
If you have any suggestions about subjects for our podcast, feel free to reach out through our Facebook page. And if you’re interested in taking a class, visit ourcommunitylistens.org. Thank you again for listening to our podcast and don’t forget, each word, each action, each silent moment of listening sends a message. Therefore, you are the message.