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024 – Creating a safe space for feedback

Host Adam J. Salgat talks with Our Community Listens Facilitator Sarah Weisbarth about creating a safe space with employees, friends, and family to give and receive feedback.

AI-generated dictation of the podcast audio

Please note that this transcription was completed using AI software.  Occasionally, unanticipated grammatical, syntax, homophones, and other interpretive errors are inadvertently transcribed by the software. Please excuse any errors that have escaped final proofreading.


Adam Salgat:

Hello and welcome to the Our Community Listens podcast. I’m Adam Salgat. And with me today is Our Community Listens facilitator, Sarah Weisbarth. How are you doing today, Sarah?

Sarah Weisbarth:

Adam, I’m doing really good today. Thanks for chatting with me as we prepare for this podcast.

Adam Salgat:

Oh, you’re welcome. So you had the idea to start looking at the environment of feedback. We’re kind of building this off of podcast number 16, where I spoke with Sharon Clement a lot about feedback. But mostly, her and I talked about how to receive feedback and a bit about how to give feedback. But we’re looking at it in a little bit different lens today, and we’re going to talk about the environment of feedback, how to consistently have a space where you’re comfortable letting people know what you think, and you’re also comfortable in receiving their thoughts. So why don’t you elaborate a little bit more on this environment of feedback?

Sarah Weisbarth:

Feedback is so powerful. It’s a gift. It’s really something that we can give to another person, and something that, when we receive it, is a gift and a benefit for us. It’s an opportunity to grow and change. It’s an opportunity to be aware of maybe something that we were unaware of before, that we could adjust with. And really, giving that feedback to someone helps them grow. But we have to do it in a way that is going to be impactful, in a way that actually creates that connection and trust within the relationship.

Adam Salgat:

Right. So you’ve kind of started talking a little bit about the value of feedback. That spans across all different parts of our life, doesn’t it?

Sarah Weisbarth:

Oh, I would totally agree. But I’m thinking you have some thoughts already. What are those?

Adam Salgat:

Well, we talked about it a little bit, but sometimes when I hear about the value of feedback, I … Obviously, I think a lot of people jump into our work-life first because oftentimes that’s where our brain goes first, especially those that are working a 40-hour, plus work schedule. But I was also considering creating that value of feedback in our parental lives or just our personal lives, so we’re able to share things with our spouse, we’re able to share things with our kids, or in the end, hopefully have our kids share more with us, and our spouse share more with us. But we have to have the right environment.

Sarah Weisbarth:

Yeah, I like that. I mean, really when you think about it, it’s the people that are closest to us that we have the most investment with. And we have the ability to maybe see those opportunities of growth for them and help them into those moments. But they, too, are going to have those perspectives and those ideas for us. And how do we continue to invite and, again, create that environment where those kinds of conversations can happen in a safe and trusting environment?

Adam Salgat:

Do you have some specifics that you can give us about how to create a positive feedback environment?

Sarah Weisbarth:

I think about myself, when I receive feedback, right, sometimes that can be a little hard. And I know Sharon talked about that on the previous podcast. What are the things that get in the way of my ability to receive feedback? But really, if someone is investing their thoughts in my growth, I have to really just pause for that moment and almost create my own internal environment to be able to then almost serve and feed the environment of that relationship.

I’m talking all over the place, but let me bring it down to concrete. Okay. So if I know that I have trust with that person … And I would say one of the most important things that you’re going to have in an environment of feedback is safety and trust. So if I know that I can trust that person … And if I know, and I’m going to assume goodwill, that person did not wake up this morning to give me this piece of feedback in order to ruin my day. And if I have that comfort and that feeling of that they’re not going to stop being my friend, or there isn’t going to be a problem in our relationship because of giving and receiving feedback, then I feel like that first thing is that environment of safety and trust. We have to have that first.

Adam Salgat:

Right. So building that within yourself and getting over certain things like the assumption of goodwill, or not getting over assumption of goodwill, but accepting assumption of goodwill, I think that is something a lot of people struggle with because they feel like feedback can be very personal.

Sarah Weisbarth:

Yeah, absolutely. It is going to be personal. I hope it’s personal. I hope if I gave someone I cared about, whether it’s a family member or a friend, some feedback that could really help them grow, that it is coming from that heart of goodwill, and that is going to just impact them in such a way that’s going to benefit them. And so then, in receiving feedback, I have to assume that that’s how people are approaching me as well.

Adam Salgat:

Okay. So let’s say you’ve done that internally. You’re you ready to hear what they have to say. What expectations should we look at next?

Sarah Weisbarth:

I would truly say that it starts to be a conversation. I have had multiple conversations. I actually just had one yesterday where someone was kind of chatting with me and kind of struggling through an issue, and it was so apparent to me what they were getting stuck on. And they looked at me, ready for that moment of advice. And remember, we don’t give advice. We want people to be able to sort out their problem. But I looked at them and I said, “Could I just give some feedback right now?” And they were like, “Yeah.” And I prefaced it with, “This is what I’m noticing. This is what might be happening for you,” and let them just take that feedback and do what they want with it. But I think you have to kind of create the moment, a known relationship, that trusting relationship, and just the conversation of, “Hey, could I provide you some feedback in this moment? There might be something you’re missing that I’m noticing.”

Adam Salgat:

Let’s bring it back to organizationally. How can you do that with a superior, potentially?

Sarah Weisbarth:

Oh, so one of the things that impede feedback environments is a perception of hierarchy. Absolutely. When we work with organizations on creating a feedback environment, that one comes up all the time. And we actually do role plays and practices through, how do I give feedback to someone that is positionally my leader, positionally hierarchy over me? Again, it has to be about the relationship. And leadership has to be on board. That’s one of the things that we really enjoy in working with our partner relationships, in helping partner organizations develop this environment. And leaders have to be willing to hear and receive feedback.

So I don’t think, whether it’s in family or friends, whether it’s in organizations, whether it’s to or from a leader in any way … I mean, it could be even coworkers. I think the relationship really … If we’re talking about the environment, it’s really about, what is that relationship like? The structure of giving feedback is very similar to our FBI messages, but it’s not confrontational. We take a lot of the emotional aspect out of it and instead say, “Well, here is a situation. Here is what you did. Here’s the impact of it,” instead of having the emotion behind it. And so it starts to become a little bit more of a neutral thing, where it can be more conversational, as opposed to having kind of the emotion built behind it.

Adam Salgat:

What do you believe needs to happen to keep sustainable feedback, to continue to build a sustainable environment of feedback?

Sarah Weisbarth:

Oh, there has to be some balance. Constructive feedback, growth feedback has to be continually accompanied with positive-reinforcement feedback. So for every one time that I might come to you and say something of an area you could grow in, I have to come first at least five times before with something that you’re doing incredible, amazing, that this went well. If you’re going to be able to hear some guidance and correction from me as a parent, as a leader, as a coworker, as a friend, you first have to know that I see all of these incredible things about you and have heard those things beforehand.

Adam Salgat:

I think sometimes that is what is often forgotten about, in our jobs or in our lives, when we don’t necessarily take the time to tell people what they’re doing right. We take for granted that they either know it or that we don’t really need to say it because they’re doing it so well that they seem confident in what it is, and they are good and good to go. So then, if you do end up giving them some feedback that might be harder to swallow and never give any positive reinforcement, they might start to look at you as, “Well, all I ever hear from them is what I’m doing wrong.” So you really start creating a resentful relationship, and you may not have meant to do that.

Sarah Weisbarth:

Oh, yeah. You nailed it. I mean, and that goes back up to the safety and trust. That breaks the safety and trust in the relationship if all I’m coming to you with is things where I think you need to grow and change and improve. Instead, like you said, if we can support that with all of the positive.

Adam Salgat:

I’m working on a video project, and it’s essentially an award for someone. And we’re having people come in and speak about them in a positive manner. And I constantly, each year I do this, think to myself, “Why am I not doing this on a monthly basis with more people?” And the interesting thing that I have found in filming these sometimes is people are more willing to say something in front of a camera when that person’s not in the room, then they might … They may not actually take the opportunity to say it to them face-to-face. So there’s my challenge, I guess, to the listeners out there: I’d love for you to take this opportunity. Like Sarah just said, think about it, a five-to-one type ratio. If there’s people in your life, coworkers, friends, family, tell them that they’re doing a great job and find that specific reason as to what it is that they’re doing a great job. And make sure you try to articulate that as much as possible.

Sarah Weisbarth:

Yeah. Wow. I’m just really pausing and thinking about that, even still, Adam, and recognizing that sometimes, it just feels weird, let’s just say, to be giving even the positive recognition.

Adam Salgat:

Positive feedback.

Sarah Weisbarth:

Yeah. And so we don’t think about it. And we really need to start to create an environment that it’s just normal that this is how we interact, that this is how we talk to one another. We recognize the things that we’re doing well. And so then, it’s easier than to point out things that can be grown and developed in.

Adam Salgat:

Right. So if you were to tell someone they look really nice today, instead of their response being, “So does that mean I look horrible all the other days,” they know that you accept it, or they know that you are trying to pay them a compliment.

Sarah Weisbarth:

Yeah. Well, let’s elevate that even beyond like, “I love your hat.” I was in a classroom last week, and we just had really incredible conversation, eighth-grade students and myself, actually around issues of trust. And they were so attentive and they were so engaged. It’s a Friday when we have this class, and they’re normally just done with their week. And quite frankly, so am I.

But man, last week, they were so in tune. And I wrapped up our conversation and our activities. And I just said, “Guys, you guys were awesome today. I really appreciate you tuning in, paying attention, giving great answers. It added to our discussion, and it helped us understand one another better.” That would be a feedback statement. It’s just recognizing, what are the qualities that people are bringing? What are the things that they’ve done? I could use you as an example. I appreciate you had everything set up when I came in here at the last minute. It helps us be more efficient. It really ties to the personal recognition that we teach in class, but it just starts to be more of a regular, I don’t know, acknowledgement of the qualities and the behaviors and the attributes that people are bringing.

Adam Salgat:

Right. Well, thank you. And part of building that positive environment is giving positive feedback.

Sarah Weisbarth:

Yes, absolutely. So we’ve had that relationship of safety and trust that has to be there, the balance of the five-to-one ratio, which you kind of took the numbers and captured that for me, and then that it just becomes normal. It’s just how we talk. It’s how we interact, that we acknowledge those positive things and we have the opportunity to grow.

Adam Salgat:

What if there’s someone out there who just kind of thinks to themself, “I appreciate those that are around me, but I don’t necessarily see it, so I don’t think to say it.” Now, we’re talking about maybe a very specific type of person, but in that case, obviously there’s maybe little tricks that they could start doing. Any tips or any thoughts along those lines for someone who might be in that boat?

Sarah Weisbarth:

I think about how I teach youth this kind of thing. I feel like it’s sometimes easier to teach the logic side of this to adults, especially organizationally, right? Like, “You want to create a feedback environment in your organization because it’s going to have all of the benefits of growth and retention. And it’ll accomplish your vision. Your employees will feel valued.” And I’m actually laughing at the tone of my voice right now because I feel like these aren’t important things, the way I’m toning them out. But there are things, like obviously, we know. We know these things are going to benefit if we create an environment of feedback.

But if I think about, then, if I really want to inspire people to be able to recognize the qualities of others, I would say first off, it is looking at, “Well, what would I want to hear? What would feel good to me? What are those things that I would like to have recognized?” And realize that I can start to do that for others, which will then create, again, this environment and model this behavior where they will to do it, hopefully for me and for others.

The other thing I know I have done, I’m almost a little chagrin to admit this, but it’s usually when someone’s making me crazy and I’ve probably launched completely into judgment about this individual. And for one, recognizing it, and then dialing it back and saying, “This person has some quality, has some aspect of them that is good.” People are good, Adam. People are good, okay? We like to see the bad, the things that drive us crazy, trigger things in us. And so then, we have some sort of perception or opinion about others. But people are good.

So when I am triggered into irritation, if I can stop and say, “Well, what is the good thing about this person?” And there have been times … In full disclosure and honesty, there have been times it might just be like, “I really appreciate that they can organize a potluck efficiently.” Okay? It could be something that I have to dig for. But the more I can do that and look for the good, then it starts to become much more natural to then give that good feedback. And I’m just thinking about this as we’re talking about this, here’s the bonus: my opinion and my judgment of them starts to change.

Adam Salgat:

Right. It starts to transition into something more positive.

Sarah Weisbarth:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And I see them for the value that they bring. And that just feeds into our empathy piece, which we talk a lot about, of then recognizing that maybe those things that make me a little crazy about them, that there’s something going on for them, or there’s something going on for me and it’s my issue that’s been triggered. Which ironically, this whole conversation leads us into my next bullet point about the feedback environment, is personal accountability.

Adam Salgat:

Interesting. Can you expand on that a little bit?

Sarah Weisbarth:

Yeah. I have to take that responsibility. You led me right into this question, like, “Well, what are some things that you can do to start to give positive feedback?” And it is that commitment that I’m going to see the good in others. And it’s a commitment in myself to recognize, you know what, I’m not perfect. And if I want others to receive the feedback I give them, that means there’s something I could probably be growing in as well. Would I be able to receive that feedback if they shared it with me? And so truly, just a willingness to commit to and have that personal accountability of, “Man, this is how I want to be with people. And this is how I want people to be with me.”

Adam Salgat:

So typically, once we’ve created that space for positive feedback and we’ve given it to someone, we’re, most of the time, asking for some kind of change. Can you talk about that change process?

Sarah Weisbarth:

Yeah. The whole point of feedback being a gift, and that can be constructive, growth feedback or it can be the positive-recognition feedback, is really, it’s an opportunity for people to grow and change. Clearly if I’ve said, “Hey, this isn’t working well in this situation, and here’s the impact it’s having,” well hopefully, that’ll … We’ll come up with a plan to shift that and create some sort of change. Or it could be a personal feedback where it’s an area for you to grow in personally, kind of my example about how I can shift into judgment. That is a personal growth area for me. So I’m now giving you full permission to give me feedback on that area because I know that’s an area I need to grow in. So growth and change. When we’ve provided feedback, really the intent is that we want to grow and develop. Positive feedback can do that as well. This is something that you’re doing incredibly well. Keep doing that. Change is this might be something that you can adjust and change in.

Adam Salgat:

I think one of the biggest elements of the term feedback that I think we combat, in my mind, is that it’s often looked at as negative, or it’s often looked at as you’re doing something wrong. That’s why I like bringing up that idea of positive feedback because like you just said, that it is still a change agent, when you are given positive feedback. If you did something maybe out of your norm and someone is saying, “That was great. Keep it up,” now, you’re starting to see the value of that change that you just made. So it may not be something that was innate. It might be something that you actually changed to do, and positive feedback in those cases is very important.

Sarah Weisbarth:

Yeah. It’s acknowledging. It’s affirming. Hopefully, we’re all in a space where we’re wanting to grow and change. And to have those things acknowledged and noticed feels good.

Adam Salgat:

Absolutely.

Sarah Weisbarth:

I was just thinking, as we were chatting, about a piece of feedback that I received when I was going through my training to be a facilitator. It’s kind of ironic that Sharon and I were both given this piece of feedback, and our response to it was actually very similar. We were going through our training and we had to teach certain sections of our slides to individuals that had long been teaching our content and our curriculum. And then they provided, obviously, feedback. They want us to grow. They want us to be the very best that we could be. And the piece of feedback that we received was that we needed to slow down, that both of our energy level was very high, and that there was no way that our participants would be able to keep up, and that we would not be able to sustain that level of energy for three days in the classroom.

Both Sharon and I were like, “We can totally maintain that level of energy.” Like, “Not a problem, not a big deal.” And the response back was, “You might be able to sustain the energy, but your participants will not keep up. And you will not reach them the way you want to reach them.” That was very grounding for both of us, that even though it’s something that we bring, something that we’ve got this great energy and people appreciate that, the impact of that is not what we’re going for. And so to be able to see and hear that from someone in a way that it’s like, “This is for your benefit.” So even something that I can correct and change is still for my benefit and will help others as well.

Adam Salgat:

That’s very interesting. So have you and Sharon … or speak mostly for yourself I suppose. Have you made an adjustment in the way that you facilitate a class?

Sarah Weisbarth:

Oh yeah. I would say that we instantly made that change in our training process. And then the next day that we came around and delivered another set of slides, we had made that change. It is probably something, at least for me, that I need to continue to remind myself because I can feel my pace picking up. But then again, that’s something that I check with my co-facilitator, or I kind of check the non-verbals of the classroom, and see what’s happening with my participants. That’s a form of feedback as well, is an awareness of what’s happening with others and how do I need to adjust then.

Adam Salgat:

When people are asking for feedback, have you ever thought about whether or not they might be doing it for a reason?

Sarah Weisbarth:

Oh. Okay, so I’ll speak for myself. I know that when I ask for feedback, it is because I’ve become aware of a blind spot. I wonder if it’s actually a blind spot any more then. But I become aware of an area that is something I need to grow in. And when I do then ask people for feedback in that area, I do choose wisely who I’m asking. Sometimes I, depending on what it is that I need feedback from, will pick different people. Sometimes I pick people that I know will just be like, they will cut to the core, and they will go right to the issue. If it’s more of a sensitive issue for me, I go to people that I know might be a little bit more gentle and guiding in their feedback. It could be depending on the environment that I want feedback in. Is it a work environment? Is it a personal environment? But, yeah. So I forget what your original question was, Adam.

Adam Salgat:

Well, just about the idea of when they’re asking for it, what are they motivated by if someone is asking?

Sarah Weisbarth:

Yeah. So when I ask for feedback, it’s because I’m motivated for personal change, personal change and growth. I’m assuming that that is why others would ask for feedback because I think it’s a very vulnerable thing to ask for feedback.

Adam Salgat:

I’ll share this story. I recently asked my mom and my sister for feedback on what we were looking at as a potential home situation. And I specifically chose to open the conversation about it all because I know that their perspective lies on the negative and, or the over-protective. And I knew leaving it, I was potentially going to be more motivated to push myself to get what I want. And they didn’t know it. And I chose to do that because I wanted … There’s a bit of an anti-authority in me. So I wanted somebody to be telling me, “You can’t do it,” or, “You shouldn’t do it.” They never came across with those harsh words. And to be honest, in the end, there was a lot of great questions being asked. So it wasn’t just that silly, “Don’t do it.” It was productive, as well as it was motivating.

So I purposefully opened the area for them to give me feedback for my own selfish reasons, to look for some push, to get more motivation, to go accomplish what I think I want to do. Now in the end, they might be completely right because if I get into the situation and I learn more financial statistics, if I look at the finances, if I look at all the information, they might be completely right, and it can’t happen. But right now, I’m in the dream stage, so I’m going to keep dreaming.

Sarah Weisbarth:

I’m hearing a couple of different things there. My first response was you went into that knowing that you wanted to challenge yourself, that you wanted someone that you know was going to fly against what you were already thinking.

Adam Salgat:

Right. The anti-car salesman.

Sarah Weisbarth:

Yes.

Adam Salgat:

In many respects, right? Because if you approach a car salesman about, “Oh, I think I can afford this,” their answer is probably going to be, “Yes.” And there’s no offense to that sales position or sales in general. But when you step into those situations, a lot of times their interest is to make a sale. So yes, the anti-car salesmen, as I nickname it.

Sarah Weisbarth:

Well, and if I stick with that concept of asking for feedback to maybe challenge our own belief system, that really is … That’s risk-taking. That, again, is kind of a vulnerable choice because if I’m approaching someone and I … Let’s say, I think I’m great at whatever. I’m great at a lot of things, but let’s say, I think I’m … I don’t know. So I’m great at painting. And I approach a friend of mine that is a painting expert, an art expert, and I say, “You know, I’d really love some feedback on my artwork,” it’s a risk I’m taking. There could be some constructive criticism that comes of that. There could be a like, “Wow. Honey, you need some more classes.” I’m challenging myself to grow. Again, and that’s a risk.

You might not know what’s going to come back and it could be to, “I want feedback to grow.” It could be, “I need feedback to challenge my belief system.” I guess, now that listening to you, I think I’ve done that before. I’m like, this is my belief system about this situation. And I don’t know if it’s the best belief system. I want to hear feedback from others. But I think what I’m trying to get to at the core of it is kind of going back up to that environment. If I don’t have that comfort and that safety and that trust with someone and I’m taking that risk, that’s a pretty big risk.

Adam Salgat:

Right. I would agree with that. And in my situation, it was two people, sister and my mom, that I’m obviously very close to. So others, I may not have done the same or if I approach them, it might be in a different context.

Sarah, thanks so much for talking today about feedback. What are your key takeaways for everyone who’s listening today?

Sarah Weisbarth:

I have five bullet points for you, Adam, and we’ve kind of touched on them informally in our conversation. The big one is that safety and trust. You’ve got to be able to know that you have a relationship with someone, that you can trust them, and that it is a safe environment to give and receive feedback. Because as we’ve mentioned, feedback, it’s a risk, and we’re being vulnerable when we ask for feedback.

And that balance, you nailed it with the five-to-one ratio. We’ve got to keep that balance between, are we giving a lot of positive-reinforcing feedback, so that when we come back with a constructive opportunity to grow, that that’s received well. And then it becomes normal that this is just kind of how we interact. This is how we grow together in any of our environments. We’ve talked about family, friends, work environment, and that we also have that personal accountability, maybe some personal awareness of, “Okay, well what’s going on for me,” but a personal accountability in that, “Well, I want this person to grow. So I’m going to be giving this feedback regularly. And I am going to be able to hear and receive feedback in a way that’s going to help me grow and commit to that.” And I’ve already touched on the growth and change. I’ve said it five times in this little summary: it’s all about growth. It’s all about that development. And in order to do that, we have to have that change perspective.

Adam Salgat:

Thanks so much for that recap. This sounds like a really great process. How can someone resource this information?

Sarah Weisbarth:

Yeah. So one of the exciting things that we have available to organizations or groups of individuals is they can engage with us. We can come into their environment, we can come into their group, we can come into their organization and actually teach and facilitate creating a feedback environment. So we’ll teach a lot of the things that Sharon talked about in our earlier podcast around feedback, about what is feedback, how to give it, how to receive it. But then, we can build on that, especially for organizations, and help them create these bullet points of the safety and trust, the balance, the normalcy, the personal accountability, all for growth and change within their organization. And we can come in and facilitate that for them.

Adam Salgat:

Well, that sounds very powerful, Sarah. Thank you.

Sarah Weisbarth:

Yeah. If people want to hear more about that, they can, as always, reach out to us on our Facebook page. They can reach us through the website. It’s a fun program to do.

Adam Salgat:

Thanks for your time today. And don’t forget, alumni, you are the message.