Adam and Sarah work their way through the communication cycle.
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Adam Salgat:
Hello and welcome to the Our Community Listens Podcast. My name is Adam Salgat. And with me today is Sarah Weisbarth, Our Community Listens facilitator. In preparation for this episode, which is titled The Art and Science of Communication, Sarah gave me a question to ponder ahead of time. Sarah, why don’t you share that question with us?
Sarah Weisbarth:
Thanks, Adam. I’m really excited about this podcast because it’s really going to give us an opportunity to consider how we show up in people’s lives. So the question I asked you was I wanted you to think of a person that has made a positive impact on you and contemplating that and thinking about that individual, what did they do that made that impact? And why was it important to you?
Adam Salgat:
That person who’s made a positive impact on me is one of my best friends since I was in high school, JR. He’s always been the type of guy who is just there for you. For me throughout my life in many forums that has been a physical thing to help me lift heavier boxes, helped me move things. I’m in need of that type of assistance on occasion and his ability to just be there all the time, without any question and doing it without considering what his own concerns might be many times. So I almost feel like growing up together, we bounce that off each other, and we continue to do that now as adults. We are there for other people, we’re there for our families. So that inspiration that he sets forth in front of me is outstanding. And I’ve always strive to do that and be there for people just like he has been for me.
Sarah Weisbarth:
When we asked this question of people, the term it’s someone that’s always been there for me always comes up that sense of there’s always that person that you can just count on, that you just know you can go to them, that they’re going to be there for you. And I think there means different things for different people, but we know what it feels like when we know someone’s there for us.
Adam Salgat:
Right. That there sometimes is an emotional thing because when I was dealing with one of our mutual friends, the first person I called was him, and it was a high stress situation and he showed up without any question. And we both, in many ways, facilitated our roles within the friendship where I was a little bit more of the emotional connection and he was the one that needed to be there for some physical help. And it was interesting that another friend of his happened to be there at the time and she said later to both of us, it was neat seeing how the two of you were able to handle a situation, and she’s like, ‘And I clearly start to grasp now why you guys are friends and how it works out.”
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah. When we have those people in our lives that we can count on, we can actually then be our very best selves as well.
Adam Salgat:
Yep. Absolutely.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah. It’s like we live in that support environment because of their presence in our lives. And then I heard you say too, then it inspires you to do that for others.
Adam Salgat:
Yeah, absolutely. The way, like I said, he jumps at almost any opportunity to help somebody and I’m similar, but I do it in different ways. Him, many times, is that physical manner where I’m more of it might be a little thing or it might be listening, not to say he doesn’t listen but for me, it’s a little bit different, but seeing how he does it, inspires me to jump at others and help them.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Just as individuals, just as our amazing selves, we have an incredible opportunity to impact the lives of people around us in big ways, incredibly intentional ways, but also in every day, what people might consider to be simple ways. And I think we forget that even in that simple presence of just listening and being there for someone, it has a huge impact and it has a trickle impact. It’s impacting the individual that you’re there for, but then they’re going to have additional strength, additional guidance, additional support to also be there for others.
Adam Salgat:
So it’s interesting to think about how the people in our lives are helping us with our communications, but what more can you tell us about the communication cycle or as you titled this the Science of Communication.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah. So what we’ve been talking about is being present and no amount of education or skill in how to communicate effectively is going to be useful or meaningful if we don’t first realize that we have to bring that presence, we have to bring ourselves and what we’re contributing to the relationship and how we communicate with others. So that’s the presence, that’s the art. That’s going to look different if it’s me, it’s going to look different if it’s you, it’s going to look different with our friends, our coworkers, that has the beauty to it. So, that’s the art side.
Adam Salgat:
I think something I want to say here, I don’t want to get into it too deep because we’ve done it before, but it’s that idea of being present right for them in the moment. I still continue to find that very hard in my life, even with my kids to put the phone away, to put the laptop away, to wipe my mind of anything that needs to be done. And I think that’s a little bit of what you’re talking about.
Sarah Weisbarth:
It is. It’s that part of reflective listening that is actually a step of the communication cycle that we dig into deeper. So it’s knowing that we have this ability to impact others and how we bring ourselves is that presence and then how do we be present as well. Communication is incredibly important. And we often joke in class, one of our co-facilitators shares the statement we take speech classes in high school and in college, but we don’t take a listening class. We don’t necessarily understand that communication in and of itself is a skill, is a tool. It just happens naturally. And sometimes we really stumble over ourselves and flip it up, if we’re not careful. Recognizing that communication is so important helps us realize that now I want to do it well because it’s a vital need.
Adam Salgat:
You just mentioned vital need. Tell me more about how that works and what that means?
Sarah Weisbarth:
We’ve been already talking about how communication is how we connect with one another. We naturally want to share ideas. That’s actually the first step on the communication cycle is this desire to connect with others. We have ideas. We have passions. We have vulnerabilities. We have issues. We have random thoughts. We have things we just naturally want to share with other people. That’s that desire to connect. It’s actually how we’re wired. It’s how we’re designed. We’re meant to be in relationship with other people. So it’s how we’re going to connect. But it’s also how we lead. And you know that one of our core principles is that everyone is a leader and if we recognize that if I want to lead people in my life, it could be my team, it could be within my family unit or my friends or a volunteer organization, any opportunity that I have to lead others, I’m going to need to be able to communicate well.
And I need to show up. I need to be present and have that presence as well. So the art and the science go together and quite frankly, it’s how we engage in life. It’s how we celebrate things. It’s how we manage things day to day. I just got off of a phone call with an organization that I’m taking a training from. I needed to be able to communicate with them. So it’s how we manage life. Communication is incredibly important.
Adam Salgat:
I liked what you mentioned about being a leader and the need to connect. And it reminded me of Simon Sinek talking about the golden circle and people care more about why you do what you do and not what you do. So being able to make that connection, building a good message as to why you want to do what you want to do, that comes into play.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah, absolutely. Everything we’ve been talking about is that desire to connect, but you just mentioned, okay, so if I want to connect now, what is it that I’m actually going to say? And that now moves us into the science side, the communication cycle itself. So the first step is that I have a desire to connect. I have something I want to share. The next step has to do with building this message. And we learn in nonverbal communication that the words are actually only 10% of our message and that how we send the message in nonverbal is the rest of the message, up to 90% of our message. So when we think about building a message, we want to be really intentional about the words that we choose, but keeping in mind, it’s only in 10% of the message.
Adam Salgat:
That’s interesting. I mean, I think I’ve heard that before, but sinking in just now, it’s very interesting because I know I stumble over the words a lot, but there are times where I know my passion, if I was able to sit in front of somebody, they’d see it. So when selling an idea, maybe it’s better to make sure you can be visual.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Oh yeah. And we notice things, like when someone sharing something with us, we hear the words, I understand the words people are saying, but what else am I noticing about their non-verbal communication? What other messages are they really sending? And can I notice from their facial expression or how their eyes are darting around or their body posture, those are aspects of the message as well. And if I can be present and very engaged with that individual, I hear those things even though they’re not verbalized.
Adam Salgat:
Right.
Sarah Weisbarth:
But let’s go back to building a message because I jumped us ahead. When we build that message with the words, we really are taking into consideration our opinions of life, our past experiences, our viewpoints, our perspectives, and we shape a message in that environment, just naturally how we see things. And then we choose the words. And I often use the example, I have 5 cent words, 50 cent words, and $5 words. And depending on the environment that I’m in and whom I’m speaking to, I have to choose my words wisely. If I am in a environment where I’m talking to young people, I don’t pull out my $5 words because I’m not going to be able to connect with them as well. I’m going to use words that they understand, that resonate with them. And that will, again, create that connection and that understanding. But if I try to talk over them or use big words that they’re not going to understand, I’ve lost that connection.
Adam Salgat:
Right.
Sarah Weisbarth:
So choosing our words wisely is incredibly important when we build our message.
Adam Salgat:
How much is a swear word?
Sarah Weisbarth:
Well, based on my value system, a swear word is very pricey.
Adam Salgat:
I was just curious.
Sarah Weisbarth:
It could be a $50 word in my bank.
Adam Salgat:
Fair enough. I’ll let you continue on building a message.
Sarah Weisbarth:
That was a good question. In the youth environment, although, using slang terms is helpful. So again, how are we relating, connecting to people? But I’m not going to use a slang term when I’m in front of a classroom teaching our communication skills class. It’s just being aware.
Adam Salgat:
Right.
Sarah Weisbarth:
And also when we look at our words, we need to consider if we’re delivering a difficult message, are we using loaded words, words that maybe have some hidden meaning or hidden intent behind them.
Adam Salgat:
Yep. And I know you’ve talked about that, about the FBI building a confrontation message.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah. And so when we use those words wisely, we can have incredible impact and we just have to consider the impact of our message.
Adam Salgat:
Right.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Okay. So we’ve built this message. We’ve taken a look at our experiences and our background. We’ve considered the environment we’re going to speak into and the individual. And we know what we want to say with intent of what we want to come out of that communication. And then that does move into then I send the message and we touched on that already with our non-verbal communication. So not only can I observe other people’s non-verbals, but I have to be aware of my own non-verbal communication. What’s my facial expression? What are my hand gestures? Am I delivering my message with a bull horn? Am I blowing people out of the water with my message? Or am I just sharing a message that they can connect and resonate with by how I’m sending it?
Adam Salgat:
Okay. So what’s next after you have built that message? I’m guessing it’s mostly built internal or maybe you’ve written it out on paper or anything like that, but you haven’t really shared that yet. We’re just right now talking about getting it formed in our brains.
Sarah Weisbarth:
So I love that you do indicate that we should consider thinking about our message ahead of time, especially if it’s an incredibly important message, but you and I have been sharing communication back and forth this whole time and we didn’t write it down. We’re thinking about it in the moment. The communication cycle actually happens very quickly. So the more we become aware about our presence in it, the easier it is going to be to form messages that have meaning just in normal everyday conversation.
Adam Salgat:
Right.
Sarah Weisbarth:
So there’s something I want to share, I’ve built a message and now I’ve sent it. So I’ve shared it. What happens then is the communication cycle shifts because I’ve delivered my message, let’s say it’s to you, as we have been chatting along. You’re going to receive it. Now we’re going to receive messages with our very strategic, intentional, reflective listening skills, remembering being attentive, as you already mentioned, and being able to share reflective response back.
Adam Salgat:
Yep. And I suppose trying to limit our bias.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah, absolutely. So if we can receive messages in a way that is in that form of acceptance, instead of trying to always seek agreement or being right, we’re going to be able to hear a lot more of the message.
Adam Salgat:
Okay. So now we’re on the other side of that communication cycle, like you mentioned, the others receive our message.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yep. And so the communication cycle obviously goes back and forth. So pretend now that I’m the other, I’m the one that has received a message from someone. I’ve listened. I’m not having to be right. I’m really just trying to hear them and understand what they’re sharing with me, but I’m decoding the words that they share with me. I’m taking in those words, what are those words mean? What do I think they’re trying to say with those words, what is my background and experience with this person? What do I know about them? What kind of situation is it? And we say decode, we’re really trying to just do our best guess and pick through what we’re hearing and seeing from that person and try to figure out what is this message really about? What are they really saying?
Adam Salgat:
Right.
Sarah Weisbarth:
And again, we do it so quickly. It’s not like we sit here and analyze it like you and I are right now. We’d never get anywhere in communication if we analyzed it like this.
Adam Salgat:
I think sometimes if we get a solid message, decoding happens very quickly and there’s not a lot of gray area or misconstrued thoughts about what they were trying to share. Would you agree with that?
Sarah Weisbarth:
Oh, I would completely agree with that. And I, like the assumption of goodwill, that if I’ve heard a message from someone, I have to remember that they didn’t wake up in the morning trying to make my life miserable. And that if I assume goodwill of that individual, then that clears up any distortion that might impede me, really being able to hear what they’re sharing with me.
Adam Salgat:
That makes sense. And that’s good. I think a lot of people can run into that wall a lot where they get some kind of feedback from a coworker or a friend and they immediately take it as some people might say personal, but that’s not necessarily their intention, it’s just maybe some of the word choices they used or it’s how you interpreted it quickly. But if you take the time to think on it, maybe it’s different.
Sarah Weisbarth:
I am going to interpret someone’s message based on my own filters and that can create barrier in communication. We’ve already mentioned some different barriers that come up in communication, like our bias or our experiences, and we’ve been mentioning the non-verbals, but then there are things like even emotion that come into play and how can, maybe, emotion distort a message. Or someone talking too much or are they talking too little? There’s all kinds of things that can impede a communication cycle going well.
Adam Salgat:
Okay.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Okay. So let’s back up just a shade before I go too far there. And so we’ve listened, we’ve decoded, trying to avoid any of these potential barriers, well then, of course, we’re going to say something back. We have a need to respond to whatever the person has shared with us. And so we build our own response using our words, our backgrounds, our experiences, what we know about this individual. And then we send that message being aware again of our non-verbals, but we send the message in a way that helps us clarify. We’ve been talking about the things that can distort communication. So if I am intentional about the message I send back to someone, it can actually be a clarifying statement and help me understand what it is they’re really trying to share with me.
Adam Salgat:
So that may be a bit of reflective listening. So you can repeat back to them what you heard and, I suppose, ask for clarity that may also get you to a point where you are now able to openly share, and they can say, “I did not mean for it to come through that way,” and you can start your communication cycle back over with them sending a new message.
Sarah Weisbarth:
That is absolutely how it goes, Adam. Perfect. It’s that reflective response of here’s what I heard you say, and this is what I’m noticing about how you might be feeling and the person can, again, clarify or not. Yeah. And then the cycle just keeps on going around.
Adam Salgat:
So this podcast, forever just keeps going?
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yes. We can keep this going on and on and on. When we teach this in class, the communications cycle is something that most people have seen. It’s not earth shattering information. We know that there are natural certain steps to communication. Very often because they happen so quickly, so easy, so natural, we don’t realize where there’s been a breakdown.
Adam Salgat:
That’s interesting. And when I think about this communication cycle, I’m already in this bit of who I am, I’m already like jumping to that next step, that next level. So I’m thinking about, okay, what is that person’s history? What do I know about them? How do they typically communicate when I’m thinking about my reflective listening skills? That’s all inside and underneath this communication cycle, which I think is very interesting to bring this up as a podcast on its own, because this is a very broad overview of everything that we’re going to teach people in Our Community Listens courses. Right?
Sarah Weisbarth:
Exactly. This is the framework that we teach meaningful relationship connection around when we teach our communication skills training. This cycle also shows up in our effective confrontation because it’s still a conversation. It’s how communication is happening. And I love listening to you say that you’re recognizing what are the things I’m taking into consideration when I’m communicating with others, because that shows that self-awareness and the things that you have already learned because you attended the class, but also because you continue to engage with us in this material and learn more and more. But if we don’t pause and consider that we can run into some problems.
Adam Salgat:
Can you give us an example of that, Sarah?
Sarah Weisbarth:
I really liked the communication cycle because I think it is very logical for people. When I attended the communication skills training class for the first time, obviously long before I was a facilitator, and I looked at the communications cycle and we’d go through and we do an exercise where we identify maybe a conversation that didn’t go quite right and we didn’t understand why it didn’t go quite right, and were able to identify which step of the communication cycles and area we need to focus on and that we need to grow in. And for me, it was I need to learn how to build my messages better. And I don’t remember the exact conversation, but I know it was a conversation with my husband. And there also showed up in that assessment, during class, that I thought he didn’t understand me. And so of course, I thought it was completely his problem. Right?
Adam Salgat:
Sure.
Sarah Weisbarth:
But what I was able to pause and self reflect on is that if he’s not understanding the message I’m delivering, where did that message originate?
Adam Salgat:
That’s a really good point. And I think a little bit about messages I’m sending to my wife, I realized that I might be using too many words and in our lives right now, too many words is really easy to lose track of because we have a three-year-old who’s making noise and we have a four month old who needs attention. So for you, when you noticed that, what did you start doing differently?
Sarah Weisbarth:
Well, I appreciate you sharing that you use too many words because that’s also the problem I have when I build a message. I tend to process out loud. I have lots of thoughts in my head and you’ve given me a wonderful application to share them with the world. Thank you very much.
Adam Salgat:
I know. They’re like two people who talk a lot do a podcast.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Crazy, but I tend to process it all out loud. And God bless my husband, he has learned how to just patiently wait for me to get to the point. But there are some times if I’m not getting to the point fast enough or clear enough or direct enough, he has no idea what I’m trying to say. Now through this course and through our working together on it, he has been able to say, “Sarah, I’m really trying to listen to you, but I am not understanding what you’re trying to tell me, can you summarize it? Can you be more clear for me?” And that’s what I still… Adam, it’s been four years, I still have to work on building that message in a way that he’s going to understand it.
Adam Salgat:
I shrugged a bit when you said it’s been four years, I think to myself, this never changes, we’re not going to be perfect in any of these skillsets, whether it’s building our message or the reflective listening, the only thing we can continue to do is keep trying and get better and get better.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah. I do feel some comfort in the communication cycle and how I show up in it is that I always feel like my non-verbals are always aligned with what I’m sharing. Without a doubt, I am confident that people know what I’m thinking and feeling by just looking at me, because I have no ability to manage it any other way, other than to be just true and genuine and authentic. And then I do like that I have grown in my listening skills, that when I shift to the other side of the communication cycle and I’m in that role of listening, that I can bring that presence, that I can bring the person I really want to be for the other and use the skills and truly listen and be present for them.
Adam Salgat:
I will say she did that for me recently and it was something I really needed. So I will give you great kudos for that. Thank you.
Sarah Weisbarth:
You’re welcome. Thank you. I was glad to be there for you.
Adam Salgat:
So that brings us back to the very beginning, presence, being there for someone. As we wrap this up, what do you want someone to take away from today’s podcast?
Sarah Weisbarth:
Well, there’s two things, Adam, and it’s going back to the title. It’s the art and the science. We reiterated again that how we show up our presence is so important. And so just consider the type of person you want to be for others knowing that we’ve all had that person in our life that is just there for us and consider how you want to do that for others. And that’s the art side. The science is, again, the communication cycle. I have something I want to share. I build a message. I send it. When I’m in the other position, I’m listening decoding, building and sending it back again. And are there areas of the communication cycle that I can grow in? Are there areas that our listeners might go yeah, I struggle with that too. And I can grow in that and learn in that.
Adam Salgat:
Well, thanks so much, Sarah, for being here with us today. Alumni, next time you’re looking to share something with someone, just think about your message and take a little time beforehand and put yourself through this communication cycle and think about your words and go from there. Thanks so much for everyone for tuning in. If you’d like more information on Our Community Listens, visit our website at ourcommunitylistens.org. And don’t forget alumni, you are the message.