Showing care to others can be as simple as listening. But is it really that simple? Join us as we explore the value of listening. What can we adjust to help others by listening? You might be surprised!
AI-generated dictation of the podcast audio
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Sarah Weisbarth:
So a few months ago I was driving my car and it was during that time of year where there was some ice on the road, but not a lot of ice. And I made a corner and the car slipped and then grabbed, and then all of a sudden my engine light went on. And then I turned the car off and when I turned the car back on, the engine light was gone, so I didn’t think anything of it. All right, so then fast forward to last month and I am driving down to one of the schools that I teach at, and all of a sudden my car starts to shutter and the engine light flashes on and all of a sudden I’m in panic mode.
Adam Salgett:
Uh-oh.
Sarah Weisbarth:
And I realized there was something seriously wrong with my car. And a car that had 107,000 miles on it all of a sudden had a blown engine. We’re a two car family. We need a car. My husband takes charge and I appreciate him for this, I really swear, but he takes charge and is like, “Well, this is what we’re going to do. And here’s how we’re going to handle this. And I’m going to call this guy and we’re going to get you this.” And within two days, we had a new car.
Adam Salgett:
Oh. We just bought a new car ourselves, a new Ford Escape.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Adam, did you hear how stressed I was? Were you really listening to me?
Speaker 3:
Welcome to the OCL podcast. Our vision is to create people centered leaders at home, at work and in our communities who lead through the powerful lens of empathetic listening. Our podcast will help refresh your skills and sharpen your tools as we do the important work of truly human leadership together.
Adam Salgett:
Hello and welcome to the Our Community Listens podcast. I’m Adam Salgett, and with me today is Sarah Weisbarth, an OCL professor. So, many of the comments we received from our alumni are about wanting to be better listeners, and even our organization’s name is Our Community Listens. Today’s topic is reflective listening, listening because you care. As you may have noticed in our opening dialogue, I did not do a very good job listening to Sarah’s car trouble story. How is it possible, Sarah, that so many people are not really listening?
Sarah Weisbarth:
Let’s say, someone’s come to me with a problem, all right? I’m going to have some reaction. So let’s first assume that this person feels like they can count on me to listen, that they trust me and that there is something about me that is prompting them to share their issue. Right now, I could be feeling a variety of things, pretty special that they picked me, that I better listen close because I might have to come up with some answer, possibly uncomfortable, depending on the depth that they’re sharing.
I could be distracted because I have a lot on my plate right now and just do not have the time to focus in on someone else. And I could be even thinking things like, “Give me a break, at least,” and fill in the blank with some type of qualifier that points out that their problem is not that big of a deal. Or maybe this is the 10th time in 5 days that I’ve heard the story and I’m over it. Or I could have my own issue going on that causes me to not be able to listen. Adam, the list goes on and on.
Adam Salgett:
Yeah, absolutely. There’s a lot of different reasons that we might not really actively listen to someone.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah. But they really need us, right? And so, we have a lot going on in our lives, you really nailed that one, but if we want to be present for people, we have to realize that they need us. The first step in the communication cycle is seek to connect. We’re designed to be in community with others. We’re drawn to connection. It might be just wanting to tell someone about your day or maybe something totally awesome happened and you just have to tell someone, or you’re frustrated with something that occurred recently, or maybe there is a real problem that you need help with. And we know that the most helpful thing a person can do is?
Adam Salgett:
Listen?
Sarah Weisbarth:
Gold star, Adam.
Adam Salgett:
All right.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yep. The most helpful thing a person can do is listen.
Adam Salgett:
Well, I know that because I took the class, but at times, I definitely struggle with doing this. When I get home from work certain evenings and I’m drained, it is difficult sometimes to listen to my wife, tell me the story of her day and she’s a sharer. And I think a lot of times we can take for granted the fact that we put a lot of energy and effort into the people at work or out in public and take advantage of those that we love who need to have even more of our energy. But oftentimes, we do take them for granted, that we could just ignore what they need because they’re always going to be there.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Right. You’re tired at the end of the day, yeah. But those people that are special to you and most important to you, they really want you to be present for them. We have these steps to reflective listening and we’re going to talk about them later, right? But let’s just touch on them quick. We have attending behavior, acknowledgments, door openers, silence, and that reflective response. So we know that their skills, we taught them in class. They’re these things that we utilize to indicate to people that we’re listening. But if we’re going to do these skills sincerely, we need to be able to be empathetic to the individual sharing because they’re sharing some part of themselves.
Adam Salgett:
We covered a little bit about empathy in our second podcast with Leanne.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah, but there’s some things that get in the way of our ability to be empathetic listeners, and those are the things we have to acknowledge.
Adam Salgett:
Tell me more.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Great door opener, Adam. Good job. Okay, so if I’m going to be an empathetic listener, I have to let go of my need to be needed. If I think that what I have to say is more important, or if I solve the person’s problem, then I am taking the conversation over, then it’s about me. This has some real consequences. I can destroy trust with that person, and they might never come to me again, or I might put that person on the defensive. I could possibly offer a solution that I think is brilliant, but doesn’t fit for them or they do what I suggest and it blows up on them, or it actually works and then they keep coming to me for solutions to all of their problems. We call this one learned dependency. In my need to be needed, I actually harm the other, removing their ability to grow and learn. Plus, then I have to deal with their problems along with mine and Adam, I have enough of my own problems I do not need to take on anyone else’s.
Adam Salgett:
Yeah. That reminds me of monkey poaching, something that we talk about in class.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yep. And so, if I am listening in order to solve the other person’s problem, I’m taking on their monkey, right? There’s a reason that listening is the most helpful thing a person can do. When I listen empathetically and reflectively respond, I’m always leaving the ownership of the conversation and the problem that it’s about with the person sharing. What we have the tendency to do when someone is sharing with us is feel like we have to do something. There’s this tension and anxiety happening and to relieve it, we typically respond sometimes in a way that’s not helpful.
Adam Salgett:
I, 100% am that person who wants to solve and create a solution and just help them because I feel like if I do, it fixes everything and it gets rid of the anxiety I’m feeling from the story that we’re sharing. But I don’t have a specific example in mind at this point but do you, Sarah, one that you could share with us and share with our listeners?
Sarah Weisbarth:
Right, well, even your example about your natural desire to solve problems, that’s part of your tendency. We have this desire to fix things for people. Mine, I like to ask questions. I am naturally curious. And if I look at my [inaudible 00:08:18] tendency, I have a strength in analyzing information and figuring out a course of action. If someone comes to me with a problem and I ask questions that cause them to have to explain themselves, they can become defensive and shut down. Or my questions could take them off track of their own thoughts and an opportunity for them to resolve their own issue is lost. Plus, whose need am I serving if I’m asking questions?
Adam Salgett:
It sounds like you’re just serving your need.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yep. And if I’m serving my need, then I am not being helpful. There are some other things that people do that shift the focus of the conversation away from the person sharing. Remember, we have this desire to respond and so, then we do something. Sometimes we offer advice. We touched on this earlier. I could suggest something that goes way wrong or I could create a loop of constantly solving their problems. Then there’s those things that destroy connection. We call these empathy blockers. These are those comments that might happen in our heads, and hopefully do not fly out of our mouths and I say fly because, man, these thoughts happen so fast. Things like, “You’ve got to be kidding me. You did not really do that, did you? You’re worrying over nothing, it’ll be fine.” We all have our go-to thoughts. Just listening to mine, I can see the judgment just swimming in them.
Adam Salgett:
Man, yeah, I can hear those in my voice, in my head when you’re saying them, especially one that I do say too much, “That’s just ridiculous.” Something that isn’t really connecting with anyone and if anything, shuts down their need to share anymore.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yep, yep, absolutely. Awareness is so key Adam. Just recognizing that there are things that you might inadvertently think or even say, it gives you a goal to work on in becoming a more empathetic listener. Knowing that you’re likely going to think that and say that you can actually replace that thought. Certainly don’t say it, maybe replace that thought with maybe reflective response.
Adam Salgett:
Right.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yep. So there are a couple of things that we do that we think are helpful and feel like we’re being empathetic that really are not helpful. Telling a similar story about ourselves and reassurance.
Adam Salgett:
Yep. I think that’s a really natural thing for people to do. So when we did our little skit in the beginning and you mentioned anything about cars, recently we did purchase a new car and so, I immediately was just waiting for you to finish, so I could jump in with my story about my car. Did that really help or did that really assist you or did it do anything for you? No, not at all. And I think that’s just a natural thing for people. They don’t necessarily mean it to be negative. I do think at certain times some people, but this is a certain personality, those stories can turn into one upsmanship. But in general, I believe, most people mean it to just connect with them.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah. I can see how we think that sharing those similar stories will create connection. But once again, what have I done with the conversation? I’ve made it about me instead of them. It might be a great relatable story, like you understand about buying a car, but it’s still about me and my story and my stress about my car and I have a great comic strip about that one upmanship. And when we are one uppers, it just causes the conversation to stop.
Adam Salgett:
Yeah.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah. I’ll post that comic strip on our Facebook page, it’s from Dilbert, it’s super funny.
Adam Salgett:
So what about reassurance?
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah, that’s a tricky one. It’s actually my go-to one when someone is talking to me, but I hate it when someone does it to me. When I don’t know what to say to someone, I tend to suggest that everything is going to be okay. I’m a generally positive person, I’m rational and I can figure that things are going to be okay. But in the moment of the emotion, hearing that it will be okay effectively says, “Don’t worry, stop talking, figure it out, so I don’t have to stay here in this place of emotion with you.” My poor husband has been on the receiving end of this one, poor guy. When I have gotten to an emotional place and he lovingly supportively says, “It’ll be okay.” My typical response is to increase the emotion and wale, “You don’t know that.” And now what is he supposed to do other than have that horrible deer in the headlights look?
Adam Salgett:
Yeah. I won’t try that one at home, but I guarantee I probably have. So what could I do instead?
Sarah Weisbarth:
This is why we say that listening is the most helpful thing a person can do. People just want to be heard in a way that they feel understood, this is what grows connection. I actually find that just listening is getting easier and easier. It takes all of the pressure off of me. I don’t have to have an answer or a solution. I don’t have to dig for a story to convince someone that I can relate to them. I don’t have to collect all of the details and information and then potentially remember it for next time we talk about this problem. I know they’ll be okay, but by listening, I can let them figure out that they’re going to be okay. All of the responsibility stays with them and isn’t that what we want to do? Keep the monkey off of my back and empower others to grow and solve their own problems.
Adam Salgett:
As always, what do you want someone to take away from today’s discussion?
Sarah Weisbarth:
For sure. We have to remember that the most helpful thing a person can do is listen. Then, let’s be aware of our natural desire to do something in the way of response when someone is sharing a story or a problem with me. Like ask questions, offer my advice, tell my own story or say that it’ll be okay. Instead, let’s focus on using the five reflective listening skills and then when it’s time, respond. Respond reflectively.
Adam Salgett:
Can you tell me what those five listening skills were again?
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yep. So it’s the attending behavior, the acknowledgements, door openers, silence and reflective response.
Adam Salgett:
Silence isn’t the best for a podcast.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Nope. We’ll find a way fill it, I promise. We’re going to define these five reflective listening skills and add them to our next podcast. And I know needing more than one door opener or making a reflective response sound more natural is an ask we’ve had from our alumni. So I think it’s going to be great that we’re going to dig a little deeper into these five reflective listening skills. And the fact that our alumni are asking for help, it really shows that they are embracing the course motto alumni, you are the message.
Speaker 3:
You’ve just listened to the OCL Podcast. Thank you for joining us. For additional resources and engagement opportunities, find us on Facebook at OCL Michigan Alumni or our communitylistens.org.