When your business card states you work for a ‘listening’ organization, you better do just that. But what happens when you put on earmuffs and dive deep into interrogation mode as a parent? What happens when your kids call you out on it? What can you choose to do?
Tune in as host Adam J. Salgat talks with Our Community Listens Executive Director Rebecca Emerson about her blog titled ‘Listening is Close to Loving’ where she explores her relationship with her sons, how they keep her accountable and how she reacts when they do.
AI-generated dictation of the podcast audio
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Adam Salgat:
Hello and welcome to the, Our Community Listens podcast. My name is Adam Salgat. and with me today is executive director, Rebecca Emerson. How are you doing today, Rebecca?
Rebecca Emerson:
Good morning, Adam. It’s a great day in St. Louis. I’m thrilled to be with you.
Adam Salgat:
So Rebecca, you recently wrote a blog titled, Listening is Close to Loving. If you don’t mind, I’d like you to read the opening paragraph.
Rebecca Emerson:
Sure. I’m happy to.
I can listen. My business card says so. There comes a fair amount of pressure leading a listening organization. Sure. There are normal workplace deadlines and to do list, but that kind of pressure is normal routine. And to be expected for someone in the modern workplace. No, the pressure I’m describing comes from raising two independent young adults who know mom’s passion for heart and what it says on her business card. And then who remind her of the words on her business card in the moments when she interrupts as a sarcastic comment. Or fall short of living as an example of empathetic listening and truly human leadership. My greatest audience lives in my home. With a son nearly through his freshman year of college, I’m learning to listen in a whole new way.
Adam Salgat:
Thanks for getting us set up and starting this conversation. Can you tell me a little bit more about your son?
Rebecca Emerson:
He is a freshman, actually, he just finished his freshman year at a college up in Chicago. He’s pursuing liberal arts and business. And really on this exploratory time of life. He’s a passionate young adult who cares about the world, and people, and soccer.
Adam Salgat:
And soccer.
Rebecca Emerson:
And soccer.
Adam Salgat:
Well, you got to have your priorities straight. So he is going off to Europe. Is that right?
Rebecca Emerson:
He is doing quite a bit. He’s going to New Zealand for 11 weeks. And then two weeks in Europe, this summer. He’s spending time actually working in youth hostels. And coming alongside other travelers. And he’ll be listening to their stories and hearing them. And just spending time connecting and serving.
Adam Salgat:
That’s awesome. And we’re going to get to an example that you utilize in your blog post about the preparation for that so. But before we get there, can you tell me what you mean when you say listening to him in a whole new way?
Rebecca Emerson:
Wow. He is 19 years old. And he’s in this beautiful discovery phase of life. And I remember being there, Adam, you might remember being there as well. But the person he was when he went off to college was slightly than the person at fall break, or Christmas break, or at spring break. And I’ve watched him in this social, and emotional, and mental, and philosophical, and theological series of discoveries. And his aha moments are changing his passions and the way he shows up in relationship and conversation. And so listening to him in a whole new way is giving grace and space for those self discoveries. It’s giving an audience for him to be heard, even when I don’t necessarily agree with what he’s saying. And it’s challenging me to sometimes pause a beat and not jump right in with what I believe to be true in my four plus decades on this planet. And allowing him the space to figure that out on his own.
Adam Salgat:
Right. Yeah. You do mention in the blog and I’m going to read a portion of it, about how difficult that is. And you state, friends sometimes it’s hard. My adult son has political or social views different from my own. Sometimes I have to wait a beat, give a pause, and remember the conversations. Not about who is right or who is wrong, but about giving my son room to explore his own mind, his own heart, and his own place in the world. So for me as a parent of a three-year-old child, it’s easy for me to be like, nope, the color is not red, it’s orange. Or Paw Patrol. Isn’t nearly as good as Butterbean’s Cafe. I mean, Avery and I aren’t tackling very heavy topics. But with your sons and them being older, what you guys were talking about can cause discomfort or frustration.
Rebecca Emerson:
Absolutely. And then you put in not only different social or political views, but different behavioral styles. And just the way we show up in the world and show up in our relationships. And that adds an extra layer of complication sometimes and an extra layer of opportunity. So Gabe getting ready for this trip to New Zealand and then onto Europe, he had a ton of details that he knew that I, as a mom sending my child to another hemisphere, I didn’t know. I needed to know like what day he was leaving, what day he was coming back, how much spending money he needs to take. And what’s covered in the cost we’ve already paid. And do any of the places he’s going require shots or,
Adam Salgat:
That’s a good point. Yeah.
Rebecca Emerson:
These things that I thought, hey, I need to know this. And he was home for one of his breaks and I kept asking questions. And finally he said, mom, this isn’t supposed to be an interrogation. Aren’t you supposed to be using door openers and just having conversation. And I had to stop because my own need as a mom and as kind of a direct personality, my own need to know all the details really in that moment when he was just home for a couple of days, my needs needed to take a backseat to his needs of my mom’s glad I’m home. And she wants to be in her presence. And she’s given me a chance to be heard. And so I had to put that away and assume that the school was going to send me all the information I needed eventually. And just allow him to be and share whenever he wanted to share. Give him a chance to be listened to, and cared for, and heard.
Adam Salgat:
That can be difficult though I’m sure, because as a parent you’re concerned. Worry and anxiety are very high. Especially when you’re talking about, like you mentioned, another hemisphere. It’s not sending him off to New York for a little while or anywhere across our own country. So I want you to speak a little bit more about how you took the feedback that he was giving you and what you just stated. Tell me again, how that went down?
Rebecca Emerson:
Both my sons, both Gabe and Nathan are excellent at holding me accountable to what it says on my business card and what it says on our webpage that we’re all about. And I love that. I love that I have these wonderful accountability champions in my home. He let me know very directly. He felt like he was being interrogated. And in that moment, when he snapped back at me, I had the opportunity to let the conversation shut down and just be frustrated and walk away. Because you don’t talk to your mom that way.
Adam Salgat:
Right.
Rebecca Emerson:
Or I had the opportunity to really look around the comment that he made and the tone he was using and think, Oh, this young man is in this brilliant time of life. And I can see into his need that he just wants a home. And a place where he can be present. And a moment where he’s away from college and he gets to be nurtured, and settled, and present. And having the opportunity to see into his need as a human, as opposed to my need as a detail planner organizer, it gave the opportunity to filter his words in here. Mom, I just want a relationship with you right now.
And when I was able to look around the words and hear the heart behind them, we had this beautiful moment of connection and just sharing and no buddy, tell me what you’re most excited about. Tell me what you’re passionate about in this, help me understand like how you’re experiencing this and what it means for you. And like he said, he is so intuitive. He gave me the recipe for what he needed. Mom gave me door openers. What kid say that? And so really just opening that door for him to share what he was passionate about the summer. And then resting and trusting that the details would come later. And they did. In that moment, when I just opened the door, then he was able to share far more than I could’ve gotten out of an inquisition.
Adam Salgat:
Yeah, for sure. And that’s something that we learn in Our Community Listens, right?
Rebecca Emerson:
Sure.
Adam Salgat:
Audience, there’s a reason I wanted her to go through that example one more time, because I find it to be an exceptional example of listening with empathy. Because she had the option in my mind to say, you don’t speak to your mom that way. She had the option to be upset. To look at it and maybe, shut down the conversation as she stated, but she didn’t. She looked around it. She listened with empathy. And really in many respect, realized what he meant when he was saying it. And had the opportunity to continue the conversation. And I’m guessing you probably got some details out of the conversation that helped fit your need, but in the end that wasn’t the goal anymore.
Rebecca Emerson:
That’s exactly right. And really what I was looking for were these empty details that I could read off of a webpage or from an informational email later on. But what I got instead, because I took time to pause and sit with them in that moment and meet his need. What I got instead was this beautiful moment of connection with my son, where I got to hear his heart. And I got to just go beyond and dive deeper. And what a treasure, what a gift that we both would’ve missed out on if we’d remained focused on our own thing.
Adam Salgat:
Absolutely. You continue on in your blog posts to kind of wrap everything up. And I’m wondering if you could read the last few paragraphs for us.
Rebecca Emerson:
Absolutely. I’d love too. Leading a listing organization is tough work friends. Not the teamwork, the events, the strategic planning, and the program development. Nope. What’s hard is when my most important audience, these individuals, I raised to be free thinkers and to lead with love. When they say, hey mom, you’re not listening. And we want to be heard. Your business card says, we should be able to expect that from you. And they should. They can. They do. And I’m so glad because this journey we’re on is an important one my friends. Listening is close to loving and for some people they’re never able to tell the difference.
Adam Salgat:
Can you expand a little bit more on your meaning behind listening is close to loving?
Rebecca Emerson:
Sure. Berne Brown talks about how actual connection and those deep moments in the heart come with risk and vulnerability. And listening is right in that mix, Adam. When we’re willing to listen to another person, when we’re able to put our own thoughts aside and really just be present with them in their moment, then we connect with them in a way that we wouldn’t if we came into a conversation with our own agenda. Or our own to-do list, or our own deliverables. And so sitting with someone, being willing to give them space to think, space to be heard space to be known, allows us the opportunity to commune and connect on a deeper level. And it’s a reciprocal thing. So it’s something that grows and generates energy of its own. Listening is close to loving, because as we listen to someone, we connect not just with the words they’re saying, but we have the opportunity to look empathetically into their message and hear their heart. And when someone feels heard and they feel known, that’s where real human connection begins.
Adam Salgat:
Thank you so much for that explanation. I agree with everything you said. When you have the opportunity to listen to one another, you have the opportunity to share and the opportunity to really connect. If people are interested in reading this full blog post, where can they find it?
Rebecca Emerson:
They can find it on the front page of ourcommunitylistens.org. Scroll to the bottom. And there are all of our blog posts along with news about what our organization is up to each week.
Adam Salgat:
What other blog topics do you have in mind coming up?
Rebecca Emerson:
Oh my goodness. I have, thank you for asking that. Holding me accountable there, Adam, I have many blog posts about three fourths of the way done and I need to finish them. But I have one that I started about always going to the funeral and sitting with people in their moment of grief or need. And writing about a friend of mine who drove eight hours when my father-in-law passed away just to be in our presence. There is this amazing thing that happens when we share the gift of our presence with others in our life. And we have that opportunity to authentically connect and care. So I’ve got some stuff coming up about that. I have some blog posts on cultural things that my son and I observed and learned about ourselves when traveling in Asia earlier this spring. And there’s always amazing things going on with our alumni base and with our facilitators throughout Our Community Listen. So be watching for some things from and about them as well.
Adam Salgat:
Well, it sounds very exciting. I look forward to reading more of your blog posts and also blog posts from our other alumni. If there are any topics that you would be interested in us touching on for a blog, or podcast, or even just questions you have, don’t be afraid to let us know what they are. You can reach out on our Facebook page or contact any one of us through the contact page on ourcommunitylistens.org. Anything else you want to add Rebecca?
Rebecca Emerson:
Adam, thank you so much for having me. It is always so fun to be in this moment and on the podcast with you. It is great to get to connect with all of your listeners. And thanks for listening.
Adam Salgat:
Oh, well, you’re very welcome. And thank you to the listeners for listening. We appreciate you. And don’t forget alumni, you are the message.